Stephen Macedo and Frances Lee, political scientists from Princeton and co-authors of "In Covid’s Wake," delve into the contentious legacy of the COVID-19 lockdowns. They challenge the widely accepted narrative of lockdown effectiveness, highlighting the disproportionate toll on essential workers and the economy. Their discussion emphasizes the need for transparency in government actions and critiques the efficacy of lockdown measures. They also touch on the controversial Great Barrington Declaration, advocating for a more balanced response in future pandemics.
49:07
forum Ask episode
web_stories AI Snips
view_agenda Chapters
menu_book Books
auto_awesome Transcript
info_circle Episode notes
insights INSIGHT
Lockdown Effectiveness Questioned
Two political scientists argue lockdowns lacked clear evidence of life-saving impact.
They call for a national reckoning on the decision-making process.
insights INSIGHT
Pre-Pandemic Skepticism
Pre-pandemic, there wasn't a consensus on the effectiveness of lockdowns, school closures, and masking.
Uncertainty existed regarding their large-scale efficacy as public policy.
question_answer ANECDOTE
Factors Influencing Lockdown Adoption
China's lockdown and Italy's adoption influenced other countries.
A report projecting 2 million U.S. deaths led to initial U.S. recommendations.
Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode
Frances Lee and Stephen Macedo's "In COVID's Wake, How Our Politics Failed Us" provides a comprehensive analysis of the political and societal responses to the COVID-19 pandemic. The book examines the initial pandemic plans, the influence of the Wuhan lockdown, and the resulting policy decisions. It highlights the disproportionate impact on essential workers and less-privileged families, as well as the politicization of scientific discourse. The authors emphasize the need to uphold democratic values like tolerance and respect for evidence in future crises. Ultimately, the book serves as a critical examination of the pandemic response and offers valuable insights for future crisis management.
Five years ago, at the urging of federal officials, much of the United States locked down to stop the spread of Covid. Over time, the action polarized the country and changed the relationship between many Americans and their government.
Michael Barbaro speaks to Stephen Macedo and Frances Lee, two prominent political scientists who dispute the effectiveness of the lockdowns, to find out what they think will be required when the next pandemic strikes.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Guest: Stephen Macedo and Frances Lee, authors of In Covid’s Wake: How Our Politics Failed Us
For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.
Photo: Hilary Swift for The New York Times
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
The Daily 
