Robert “Cujo” Teschner, a retired F-15/F-22 fighter pilot and expert in team effectiveness, shares insights on preventing teams from repeating mistakes. He emphasizes the power of structured debriefs in both military and business contexts, advocating for a culture that turns lessons into actionable changes. Cujo discusses the importance of clear objectives during debriefs, differentiates between decision quality and outcomes, and highlights how these practices foster accountability and psychological safety, enhancing overall team dynamics.
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volunteer_activism ADVICE
Prove It
Prove learning through changed behaviors, not just words.
Avoid empty claims like "We learned a lot" without demonstrating actual change.
insights INSIGHT
Debriefing: Military vs. Civilian
The military uses debriefs to improve performance, while civilian businesses often gloss over mistakes.
A mission-oriented approach with debriefs can benefit any organization.
insights INSIGHT
Life or Death Stakes
Business contexts can be just as crucial as military ones, impacting livelihoods and families.
Continuous learning is essential for navigating disruptions and improving performance.
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This book explores the fundamental causes of team failure and organizational politics through a narrative about a fictional company, DecisionTech, Inc. It outlines five dysfunctions: absence of trust, fear of conflict, lack of commitment, avoidance of accountability, and inattention to results. The book provides practical advice and real-world examples to help teams overcome these dysfunctions and become high-performing teams.
Good to Great
Why Some Companies Make the Leap... and Others Don't
Jim Collins
In 'Good to Great,' Jim Collins and his research team investigate why some companies achieve long-term greatness while others do not. The book identifies key concepts such as Level 5 Leadership, the Hedgehog Concept, a Culture of Discipline, and the Flywheel Effect. These principles are derived from a comprehensive study comparing companies that made the leap to greatness with those that did not. The research highlights that greatness is not primarily a function of circumstance but rather a result of conscious choice and discipline. The book provides practical insights and case studies to help businesses and leaders understand and apply these principles to achieve sustained greatness.
The 4 Stages of Psychological Safety
Defining the Path to Inclusion and Innovation
Timothy R. Clark
This book provides a framework for leaders to cultivate psychological safety within their organizations. It outlines four successive stages: Inclusion Safety, where individuals feel accepted and part of the team; Learner Safety, where they feel safe to ask questions, experiment, and make mistakes; Contributor Safety, where they are encouraged to participate fully and contribute meaningfully; and Challenger Safety, where they can challenge the status quo without fear of repercussions. Clark draws on psychology, philosophy, social science, and his own experiences to show how leaders can create an environment that fosters vulnerability, learning, and innovation.
Debrief to Win
How America's Top Guns Practice Accountable Leadership...and How You Can, Too!
Robert “Cujo” Teschner
Debrief to Win offers insights into how high-performing teams, like those in the U.S. Air Force, use debriefing to enhance performance. The book emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between taskwork and teamwork, building psychological safety, and fostering accountable leadership. It provides a framework for organizations to improve by focusing on both successes and setbacks as opportunities for growth.
Robert “Cujo” Teschner: Debrief to Win
Robert “Cujo” Teschner is a retired F-15 / F-22 fighter pilot. He is also a former F-15 Weapons School Instructor, F-22 Squadron Commander, senior Joint Staff officer, and combat veteran. He holds advanced degrees in Operational Art and Science and National Security Strategy and has extensive experience in tactical planning and execution, and organizational leadership. From 2004 to 2006, he served as the US Air Force’s expert in post-mission debriefing, the methodology used by high-performing military teams to self-correct and improve continuously.
Cujo retired immediately after his promotion to full Colonel due to complications from cancer-related care and started an international business consulting practice based in St. Louis, MO. His company is called VMax Group. VMax Group’s mission is to teach, inspire, and nurture teams on how to really “team”, making work more fulfilling, and making teams much more effective. He is the author of Debrief to Win: How America's Top Guns Practice Accountable Leadership...and How You Can, Too!*
Many of us recognize we could get better at reflecting on our team’s work, but we rarely get beyond what went well and what didn’t. One of the best ways to stop making the same mistakes is to look at the truth of what’s already happened, and learn from it. In this conversation, Cujo and I look at the value of a debrief and how to bring that practice into your organization.
Key Points
Saying, “We learned a lot of important lessons today,” doesn’t actually prove that any learning has happened.
The context of military and civilian debriefs are both different, but the stakes are still high in both venues.
A debrief is not about blame or shame. Instead, it’s an affirming, positive experience that builds future leaders.
A key benefit of regular debriefs is to institutionalize the process of challenging conversations. Psychological safety is critical for this to happen well.
Objectives should be measurable, achievable, and time-constrained. Debriefs should focus on the objectives and the decisions that were made to meet those objectives.
Be cautious about outsourcing debriefing to external facilitators. An effective debrief should be led by someone who has participated in the mission or project.
Resources Mentioned
Debrief to Win: How America's Top Guns Practice Accountable Leadership...and How You Can, Too! by Robert “Cujo” Teschner
Robert “Cujo” Teschner’s website
Interview Notes
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Related Episodes
Five Steps to Hold People Accountable, with Jonathan Raymond (episode 306)
How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)
The Way to Make Better Decisions, with Annie Duke (episode 499)
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