Why Google Killed Num=100: The Secret War Against OpenAI (feat. Moz's Jonathan Berthold)

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Jan 24, 2026

Jonathan Berthold, VP of Revenue at Moz and seasoned SEO/product leader, breaks down Google’s num=100 change and why it mattered. He discusses how LLMs and AI Overviews reshape informational traffic. Conversations cover brand and topical authority, why rankings beyond page one often don’t matter, and how tools and analytics should evolve in a world of zero-click and generative search.

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INSIGHT

Informational Traffic Is Being Rerouted To LLMs

LLMs and AI Overviews are siphoning informational traffic, reducing visits for broad educational content.
Jonathan notes this can still build brand affinity because LLMs often cite authoritative sources like Moz.

ANECDOTE

Moz's Brand Cushion Against Traffic Loss

Moz saw informational traffic dip but gained ChatGPT citations that drove brand awareness and downstream impact.
Jonathan contrasts Moz's resilience with smaller sites that lost traffic and saw CPCs rise as competitors bought paid search.

ADVICE

Make SEO Part Of Brand Strategy

Treat SEO as part of an interconnected brand strategy, not as an isolated channel.
Coordinate SEO, paid, PR, and influencer tactics around a single brand narrative.

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E934: Google's quiet removal of the num=100 parameter sent shockwaves through the SEO tooling ecosystem. Many called it an apocalypse. Others barely noticed.

I sit down with Jonathan Berthold, VP of Revenue at Moz, to unpack what actually happened, why Google made the change, and how it connects to a much bigger shift happening across search, AI, and zero-click results.

We cover how SEO is evolving under pressure from AI Overviews, LLMs, and generative search - and why most of the panic is misplaced.

Topics covered: - What the num=100 parameter was and why Google removed it - Whether this change was aimed at SEOs, tool providers, or OpenAI - How rank tracking, impressions, and average position were distorted before the change - Why keyword positions beyond page one rarely matter for real business outcomes - The rise of zero-click search and what it actually means for traffic - How AI Overviews and LLMs are reshaping informational search - Why commercial and transactional queries are far less impacted - The difference between SEO as a strategy vs SEO as a channel - Why brand is becoming the strongest long-term advantage in search - How Moz has adapted its product and analytics approach - What SEO agencies need to change when rankings stop being the primary KPI - Whether AI tools threaten SEO careers - or force better ones - Google vs OpenAI vs other LLMs and what's really at stake - Why "GEO" mostly looks like good SEO done correctly

Key takeaways: - The num=100 removal didn't break SEO - it exposed bad measurement habits - Traffic quality matters more than traffic volume - Informational content still matters, even when clicks decline - Brand visibility now extends beyond Google into AI systems - SEO success is increasingly tied to business outcomes, not rankings

This conversation goes deep into how search is changing without resorting to hype or fear. If you work in SEO, marketing, analytics, or product - and want a grounded view of where things are heading - this episode is for you.

⭐️ Jonathan Berthold on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanberthold/ ⭐️ Jonathan Berthold on 𝕏: https://x.com/j_bertho ⭐️ Moz (my affiliate link): https://edwardsturm.com/refer/moz/

💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome 01:09 SEO Industry Insights 04:19 Impact of LLMs on SEO 10:47 Brand Importance in SEO 11:14 Discussion on Topical Authority 16:06 The Num Equals 100 Parameter Change 29:14 Google's Strategy Against OpenAI 32:13 The Rise of Claude Code and LLMs 33:06 Comparing ChatGPT, Gemini, and Claude 35:27 OpenAI's New Ad Model 36:15 Challenges in Scaling OpenAI's Ad System 41:38 SEO and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) 54:07 The Future of AI in the Job Market 01:00:30 Will AI Mode Become the Default? 01:02:51 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The Edward Show. The #1 search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/

#searchengineoptimization #generativeengineoptimization #performancemarketing #digitalmarketing