We're Not Marketers

Doing more with less as a solo PMM w/ Michele Nieberding

Mar 20, 2025

In this engaging conversation, Michele Nieberding, Director of Product Marketing at Metarouter and two-time Top 100 PMM, returns to challenge common misconceptions about product marketers. She discusses how AI is revolutionizing the role, shares tactical insights on collaborating with sales, and explains the importance of disqualifying bad leads. Michele also dives into the launch hamster wheel that traps PMMs and the rise of the VP of Product Marketing, all while mixing in humorous analogies about dating mishaps. Get ready for essential PMM trends for 2024!

48:56

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Episode guests

Michele Nieberding

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Episode notes

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Product marketers must define their distinct role separate from broader marketing to maintain strategic focus and value.

Embracing AI tools can boost productivity for product marketers, but human insight is crucial in messaging to ensure alignment with customer needs.

Deep dives

The Distinction Between Product Marketing and Traditional Marketing

Product marketers are often miscategorized under broader marketing roles, which can undermine their strategic focus. Unlike traditional marketers, product marketers should not be solely evaluated with MQLs, as this can lead to an execution-driven mindset that diminishes their value. The perspective that reporting to a revenue-driven role like a CRO can limit the effectiveness of product marketing is emphasized, highlighting the importance of maintaining a focus on long-term initiatives rather than short-term wins. Understanding this distinction can empower product marketers to advocate for their responsibilities and ensure their contributions to the organization are recognized and valued.

Intro

2min

Navigating Product Marketing Challenges

5min

The Intersection of AI and Human Creativity in Copywriting

2min

AI in Product Marketing: Balancing Innovation and Human Touch

12min

Bridging Marketing and Sales

15min

Qualifying Leads: A Critical Sales Strategy

7min

Navigating the Evolution of Product Marketing Roles

3min

Balancing Technology and Outdoor Life in a Digital Age

3min

We have a rule here: Never get the same guest twice. Well, we’ve just broken it now because we’re getting Michele Nieberding for the 2nd time!

The Director of Product Marketing at Metarouter, the Martech queen and two-time Top 100 PMM, returns to challenge one of the biggest assumptions about product marketers. We dive into the blurred lines between PMM, marketing, and product teams, why some org structures set PMMs up for failure, and how AI is reshaping the role. Plus, Michele drops tactical insights on working with sales, disqualifying bad leads, and scaling impact as a solo PMM. We’ve talked about:

✅ The launch hamster wheel—why PMMs get stuck in product launches & how to escape it
✅ The red flags: If your PMM team reports to the CRO, run! 🏃‍♀️
✅ How to work with sales without becoming a glorified content marketer
✅ The anti-ICP approach: Why knowing who isn’t a fit is just as important
✅ Feature matrix vs. value selling: When does sales actually need that comparison chart?
✅ AI for PMMs—the right (and wrong) ways to use AI for messaging, content, and research
✅ The rise of VP of Product Marketing—finally, a real PMM career path?
✅ The troubling trend: Why “Director of Growth & PMM” is a dangerous hybrid role
✅ Buffets, bad dating analogies, and how to disqualify bad fits faster than a bad Tinder date