Supercommunicators | 3. How to Have the Hardest Conversations
Mar 12, 2025
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In a riveting discussion, Vernā Myers, Netflix’s former vice president for inclusion strategy, shares her experiences navigating tough conversations at the company, particularly following a racially charged incident. She highlights the vital role of establishing ground rules and emotional connections to foster safer dialogues. Joined by psychologist Jay Van Bavel, they delve into strategies for tackling the hardest chats, encouraging listeners to confront their anxieties and transform personal narratives into bridges for understanding.
Establishing ground rules for difficult conversations helps alleviate anxiety, enabling respectful and constructive dialogue among participants.
Sharing personal experiences during discussions fosters deeper connections and understanding, promoting a more inclusive workplace environment and culture.
Deep dives
The Catalyst for Internal Conflict
A pivotal incident in February 2018 at Netflix sparked significant internal discord when the company's chief communications officer addressed offensive language in a newly released comedy special. The controversy arose from comedian Tom Segura's comments about Down syndrome, which prompted the executive to acknowledge the potential fallout, likening the impact of slurs to the pain experienced by African-Americans exposed to historical racial slurs. This analogy led to the firing of the executive, Jonathan Friedland, after allegations of him using racial slurs in meetings with staff. The fallout revealed a division in perspectives among employees; some felt the firing was unjust while others believed that any use of such language, regardless of context, indicated a lack of understanding regarding its harmful effects.
Navigating Difficult Conversations
The podcast emphasizes the importance of having challenging conversations and the anxiety often involved in addressing sensitive topics. Psychological research indicates that individuals frequently avoid difficult discussions due to anticipatory anxiety, fearing worst-case scenarios that usually do not materialize. Establishing ground rules for discourse can alleviate some of this anxiety, enabling participants to engage respectfully and constructively even when disagreements arise. By creating a framework for dialogue that encourages openness and understanding, individuals can confront tough issues more effectively, potentially leading to greater empathy and connection.
Modeling Norms for Communication
In her role as vice president of inclusion strategy at Netflix, Vernée Myers instituted workshops aimed at facilitating candid discussions about race and other sensitive issues within the company. She recognized that sharing personal experiences rather than merely presenting facts fosters a deeper connection and understanding among participants. By establishing clear guidelines—such as avoiding blame and ensuring mutual respect—these workshops encouraged employees to articulate their feelings and experiences of exclusion. The shift in communication culture was evident as employees began to embrace these conversations, leading to a more inclusive environment where individuals felt safe to express themselves without fear of retribution.
The final installment of our series explores the conversations that most of us dread, like frank discussions of our differences or a negative performance review at work. We often anticipate that these chats will go badly—and end in hurt feelings or embarrassment—but there are proven ways to make them easier to navigate.
Host Charles Duhigg talks with psychologist Jay Van Bavel about strategies for having the hardest conversations. And: Vernā Myers, Netflix’s former vice president for inclusion strategy, tells the story of what happened inside the company after an executive was fired for using a racial slur.
This Slate miniseries dives into the art and science of meaningful conversations, inspired by Duhigg’s bestselling book, Supercommunicators. The guides we mention in this episode can be found at charlesduhigg.com/tools/
Supercommunicators was produced by Sophie Summergrad and Derek John, who also did the sound design. Our technical director is Merritt Jacob and our supervising producer is Joel Meyer.
