561: Bob Sutton - How Smart Leaders Make The Right Things Easier and The Wrong Things Harder (The Friction Project)
Jan 1, 2024
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Bob Sutton, worked with Ed Catmull, shares insights on leadership. Good bosses ask questions and make the call. Slowing down and enjoying conversations is important. The dangers of unnecessary jargon in communication. Career advice for early to mid 20s. The power of curiosity and compassion in building relationships.
Being early to meetings presents opportunities for learning and growth.
Sustaining excellence as a leader requires curiosity and compassion.
Prioritizing meaningful interactions over efficiency can promote balance and connection.
Deep dives
The Power of Being Early and Its Benefits
Being early to meetings is not only considerate but also presents opportunities for learning and growth. Early arrival allows individuals to observe and learn things they wouldn't have known otherwise. A Stanford soccer player who always arrived early to class created a valuable opportunity for himself by being reliable and dedicated. This anecdote highlights the importance of punctuality and its potential to lead to positive outcomes.
Curiosity and Compassion as Key Leadership Traits
Sustaining excellence as a leader requires curiosity and compassion. Successful leaders possess an insatiable curiosity, continuously seeking to learn and explore new ideas. They also demonstrate deep compassion for the people they lead, showing genuine care and understanding. Examples include Bonnie Simi, a leader known for her curiosity and versatility, and Ed Catmull of Pixar, who emphasizes silence, listening, and compassion in leadership. These qualities contribute to sustained excellence and effective leadership.
The Significance of Slowing Down and Purposeful Friction
In the pursuit of efficiency, it's important to recognize when slowing down and embracing friction can be beneficial. The Jumbo grocery stores in Holland implemented a slow lane, providing an environment for older people to engage in meaningful conversations during their shopping experience. This deliberate approach allowed for deeper connections and alleviated feelings of loneliness. Leaders must discern when to prioritize speed and when to create space for meaningful interactions, savoring the good things in life and promoting a balanced, purposeful approach.
Importance of Challenging Jobs and Chief of Staff Roles
It is advisable for individuals who are early in their careers and seeking to leave a positive impact to opt for jobs that provide opportunities to learn and experience variation. These jobs include roles that allow interaction with different people both within and outside the organization. One such role is a Chief of Staff position, where individuals get exposed to various facets of the organization and gain insights into its politics. This experience helps in developing leadership skills and understanding the dynamics of the business environment.
Using Good Friction to Overcome Bad Friction
Good friction can be employed to eliminate or reduce bad friction within organizations. For instance, employing a simple rule that restricts the number of interviews for job candidates can lead to a significant decline in the number of interviews needed and help streamline the hiring process. Similarly, implementing policies that require written justification and approval for new software purchases can help eliminate unnecessary software platforms and reduce complexity within organizations. By using good friction strategically, leaders can effectively address and prioritize the areas that need attention.
Compassion - Assume you don't know others' struggles
Bob worked with Ed Catmull (Pixar)
He was one of the best at combining curiosity, willingness to try new things, and having compassion for people
Good Boss vs. Bad Boss
Good bosses ask lots of questions and then make the call (John Hennessey, Stanford President)
The Jumbo Grocery Stores in Holland created “slow lanes” for those who wanted to talk… They didn’t want efficiency or speed, they wanted a conversation. It’s a good reminder that sometimes we should slow down and enjoy our surroundings and the people we’re with…
Curiosity and Compassion are skills we can build. Take the experiment where they counted the number of questions versus statements and your talking time. Surround yourself with people who will give you direct feedback about your level of curiosity and compassion… When conversing with someone else, how often are you asking questions versus talking about yourself? Think about that…
It’s not always right to be efficient… Bob shared the Jerry Seinfeld story… The network was considering bringing in McKinsey to help Jerry become more efficient when making his show. He asked, “Are they funny?” They said, no that’s not what they do. And he said, “Then I don’t need them.” It’s not always supposed to be efficient. Sometimes, the hard way is the right way… To get the best result, it usually is.
Some things Bob believes (we should all post an essay about what we believe):
Indifference is as important as passion.
The best leaders know what it feels like to work for them. They overcome the urge to focus attention on powerful superiors rather than their followers
The best leaders think and act as trustees of their employees' and customers' time. They are "friction fixers" who hold themselves and others responsible for making the right things easier and the wrong things harder. That might mean, for example, reducing friction by eliminating and revamping meetings.
"Am I a success or a failure?" is not useful. It is better to ask “What am I learning.”
Noam Bardin (from Waze)
Laszlo Bock - For hiring, "If you need to interview someone more than 4 times, then you must get written approval." This helped speed up the process.
One of the roles of the leader is to be the editor-in-chief. Great leaders are great communicators. You must become a good writer and speaker if you want to lead.
Life/Career advice:
Seek variation each day
A chief of staff job could lead to big things (if you work for the right person)
Be kind
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