AI-powered
podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
The podcast episode features an in-depth conversation between the hosts, Nate Hagins and Daniel Schmachtenberger, focusing on the intricate interplay of major issues such as energy, the economy, and the environment. Nate highlights his initial awe at Daniel's ability to connect complex ideas, leading to thought-provoking discussions. Daniel's primary focus is on the risks posed by social media and artificial intelligence, impacting individual minds and society's ability to navigate current challenges collectively. The episode delves into merging Nate's macro superorganism perspective with Daniel's microorganism approach, aiming to analyze and guide societal evolution towards sustainability.
The conversation deepens into exploring the concept of 'energy blindness' in society, illuminating the intricate relationship between technology, energy, money, and growth. Nate and Daniel underscore the vital but often overlooked link between energy and the economic system, emphasizing how profits and societal progress are tightly tethered to energy sources like fossil hydrocarbons. They stress the critical importance of acknowledging this energy dependency and rethinking existing systems to steer society towards sustainability in the face of future challenges.
The discussion evolves to address the inadequacies of current renewable energy solutions in fully replacing hydrocarbons like oil and coal. Nate and Daniel elaborate on the challenges surrounding energy return on investment, energy quality and transportability, as well as the limitations in replicating the versatility and efficiency of hydrocarbons in various industrial applications. They point out the necessity of transitioning towards a post-growth economic model, emphasizing the need for wider boundary thinking to address the energy and environmental complexities inherent in current and future energy systems.
The episode investigates the multifaceted impacts of energy systems on the environment and economy, shedding light on the hidden environmental costs associated with hydrocarbon extraction and utilization. Nate and Daniel delve into the environmental repercussions of energy production, including greenhouse gas emissions, resource extraction methodologies, and geopolitical tensions over energy resources. They underscore the urgency of confronting the environmental and economic challenges inherent in current energy paradigms to pave the way for a more sustainable and balanced approach to energy consumption.
The podcast delves into the underestimation of resource inputs to economies for over a century and the lack of consideration for pollution costs. This leads to distorted prices of goods, driven by a quest for maximum profit rather than sustainability. The failure to account for negative externalities like environmental impacts results in industries appearing profitable when they would not be if all costs were included, hinting at an urgent need for pricing reform.
The episode explores the urgent need for transitioning to a sustainable economic model by pricing non-renewable inputs properly and shifting the tax burden from human labor to non-renewable resources. It emphasizes the unsustainable material and energy consumption patterns, highlighting the interconnectedness of energy, materials, and growth. The narrative underscores the necessity of a closed-loop economic system to address waste management challenges and ensure long-term viability.
On this episode we meet with founding member of The Consilience Project, Daniel Schmachtenberger.
In the first of a five-part series, Nate and Daniel outline the macro risks and pathways for civilization to 'bend' and avoid 'breaking' in coming decades.
In the Part 1 of 5 conversation, Schmachtenberger flips the script to interview Nate about the urgent problems his research and work on energy, money, and growth confront. Nate explains how we can come to understand energy blindness and the overlooked role of oil in consumption, production, and progress since the Industrial Revolution. The dominant narrative of human progress prioritizes capital and labor — but the omission of energy and materials leaves out a key component to understanding how the modern human ecosystem functions.
Further, Nate discusses how a growth economy will inevitably lead to increased energy production and consumption, and how new energy technologies like renewables end up creating more energy output, not less. Putting everything together, in outsourcing our decisions and planning to a market dependent on growth, we have not so metaphorically become an energy hungry superorganism.
Finally, Daniel and Nate look forward to answering: What are ways for us to prepare for a post-growth economy? How can we stay balanced in the face of existential crises? What type of policy can help shape a future that is yet to arrive, and how can we get ahead?
About Daniel SchmachtenbergerDaniel Schmachtenberger is a founding member of The Consilience Project, aimed at improving public sensemaking and dialogue.
The throughline of his interests has to do with ways of improving the health and development of individuals and society, with a virtuous relationship between the two as a goal.
Towards these ends, he’s had particular interest in the topics of catastrophic and existential risk, civilization and institutional decay and collapse as well as progress, collective action problems, social organization theories, and the relevant domains in philosophy and science.
For Show Notes and Transcript visit: https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/05-daniel-schmactenberger
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode
Hear something you like? Tap your headphones to save it with AI-generated key takeaways
Send highlights to Twitter, WhatsApp or export them to Notion, Readwise & more
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode