Being Well with Forrest Hanson and Dr. Rick Hanson

The Heart of Zen with Henry Shukman

May 3, 2021

56:17

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Henry Shukman, a Zen Master, discusses self-transcendent experiences, relaxing self-identification, and the warm heart of Zen practice. They explore the role of transcendent experiences, the importance of virtue, and the risks of seeking self-transcendence. They also touch on non-separateness and fear around not-self. Henry shares his transformative Zen practice and profound awakening, while also discussing the challenges of integrating breakthrough experiences into understanding.

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Quick takeaways

Self-transcendent experiences are valuable but should not be the sole focus of spiritual practice.

Allowing pain to be present and offering kindness can lead to deeper peace.

Relaxing attachment to self-identification and welcoming thoughts and emotions can aid in spiritual growth.

Deep dives

The Role of Awakening Experiences

Henry Schuchman discusses the profound awakening experience he had when he was 19 years old and the role of such experiences in spiritual practice. He acknowledges that while some people may have these sudden awakening experiences, they should not be seen as the sole purpose or goal of practice.

Introduction

4min

Finding Peace in Challenging Times

8min

The Transformative Experience of Water and Sparks

17min

Exploring the Concept of Awakening and Its Relationship to the Path

4min

Resting Awareness in What is Already True

2min

Recognizing and Tuning into the Reassuring Feeling

22min

Achieving Less Self Identification and the Impediments to Practice

2min

Henry Shukman, the guiding teacher of Mountain Cloud Zen Center, joins Rick and Forrest to explore self-transcendent experiences, relaxing self-identification, and the warm heart at the core of Zen practice.

About our Guest: Henry Shukman is a writer, poet, and Zen Master of the Sanbo Zen lineage. He’s published nine books to date which have won numerous awards, and writes regularly for Tricycle, The New York Times and other publications. His most recent book is One Blade of Grass: Finding the Old Road of the Heart, a Zen Memoir.

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Key Topics:

1:50: How Henry came to meditative practice.

3:30: Henry’s self-transcendent experience.

7:20: How Zen practice has changed Henry’s experience of himself.

10:35: Gradual cultivation, sudden awakening.

14:30: The role of transcendent experiences.

18:50: The importance of virtue.

21:40: Unethical behavior among contemplative teachers.

22:40: The risks of “seeking” self-transcendent experiences.

27:00: A framework that supports awakening.

31:00: Where it’s valuable to rest our awareness.

35:30: Practicing when there’s suffering associated with the container of the body.

41:10: Non-separateness, and relaxing identification with self.

47:15: Fear around not-self.

48:10: “The apple falls away from the tree.”

51:15: Recap

Forrest has a new YouTube channel! Subscribe to the channel, and watch his newest video over there.

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