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Behavior Is the Lean Advantage with Drew Locher

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Jul 8, 2025

Guest

Drew Locher

Drew Locher, a Lean and enterprise excellence consultant and two-time Shingo Prize winner, discusses behavioral change as the core of continuous improvement. He touches on value stream mapping pitfalls, why leaders avoid the Gemba, Toyota Kata and PDCA habit-building, applying Lean beyond manufacturing, creating safe improvement environments, and unleashing 3P for better product and process design.

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INSIGHT

Behavior Drives Continuous Improvement

Drew Locher says about 80% of continuous improvement is behavioral, so human factors dominate success.
He studied organizational behavioral science to better equip improvement efforts.

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ADVICE

Observe Work, Design A Focused Future State

Do go to the Gemba and observe the work rather than mapping from a conference room.
Use future-state questions to design a limited set of 8–12 substantive projects, not 100 small ideas.

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ADVICE

Make Gemba A Habit

Make visiting the Gemba a habit by taking teams to see problems when they arise.
Engage multiple senses to build collective understanding beyond verbal descriptions.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Drew's background and shift to behavioral science

00:44 • 3min

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Writing The Complete Lean Enterprise

03:29 • 4min

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Common value stream mapping mistakes

07:08 • 6min

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Why leaders avoid the Gemba

13:10 • 2min

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Toyota Kata, PDCA, and habit formation

15:23 • 4min

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Applying lean outside manufacturing

19:30 • 5min

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Overcoming negative mindsets and hiring

24:53 • 6min

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Creating a safe environment for improvement

30:37 • 1min

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Avoiding blame: focus on process first

31:42 • 4min

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Leadership behaviors that sustain improvement

35:30 • 4min

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Leaders versus managers: builders and maintainers

Unleashing the Power of 3P explained

42:01 • 7min

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3P real outcomes and lessons

Unleashing the Power Of 3P

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The Complete Lean Enterprise

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Banish Waste and Create Wealth in Your Corporation, Revised and Updated

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This book, written by Michael Hammer and James Champy, is a landmark in the field of management. It focuses on the concept of business process reengineering, which involves the comprehensive reevaluation and radical transformation of business processes to achieve significant enhancements in cost efficiency, quality, service, and speed. The authors provide practical guidance and real-life examples from companies like Ford, Motorola, and IBM, emphasizing the importance of measurement, accountability, and cross-functional teams. Despite some criticisms regarding its impact on employees, the book remains a seminal work in organizational change and business management.

On this episode of Quality Time with MoreSteam, Dan Swartwout hosts two-time Shingo Prize winner Drew Locher. Their conversation covers lean-driven process improvement and team leadership. Drew believes that 80% of continuous improvement is behavioral. So, have you created a safe environment for your team? Do you avoid blame-and-shame language? And because change must be directional and done with purpose, are the reasons for change clearly outlined? Find out why these are keys to operational excellence.

Value stream mapping. Boom! PDCA. Of course! There are also some fun callbacks to previous episodes as Drew brings a new perspective to familiar themes. Did we mention that Drew is from the Philly area and trusts the process? You know this will be good.

In this episode, you will hear about:

0:46 - Drew's background

7:05 - Value stream mapping mistakes

13:18 - Why some leaders are reluctant to visit the Gemba

15:22 - Toyota Kata and PDCA

19:27 - Lean thinking outside of manufacturing

25:15 - Overcoming negative mindsets

31:43 - Creating the right work environment

35:27 - Leadership behaviors that drive continuous improvement

39:43 - Comparing leadership and management

42:01 - Unleashing The Power of 3P

49:31 - The Philadelphia Eagles