In this conversation, David J Bland interviews Andi Plantenberg about her experience with testing and experimentation, particularly in the context of NASA missions. 

They discuss the importance of testing early stage ideas, the challenges of navigating a culture of perfection and safety, and the need for fluidity and adaptability in the face of uncertainty. 

Andi shares insights from her work with NASA, including the use of simulated mission control rooms and the iterative design of software. 

She also emphasizes the importance of systems thinking and the need to address complex problems in a holistic way. 

Overall, the conversation highlights the value of experimentation in driving innovation and addressing the pressing challenges of our time.