The Gray Area with Sean Illing

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When doing the right thing makes you a criminal

Dec 5, 2019

Guest

Wayne Hsiung

Wayne Hsiung, founder of Direct Action Everywhere, has traded a promising academic career for frontline activism after witnessing the brutality in slaughterhouses. He dives into the transforming power of personal experience that drove him to rescue sick animals, facing severe legal repercussions for his actions. Hsiung discusses the disconnect between society’s norms and ethical responsibilities, the effectiveness of nonviolent activism, and the chilling realities behind food production, urging listeners to confront uncomfortable truths about their choices.

01:45:28

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ANECDOTE

Childhood Trauma

Wayne Hsiung experienced racist attacks, including one that sent him to the hospital.
This dislocation and trauma shaped his perspective and gave him a sense of freedom.

question_answer

ANECDOTE

Trip to China

Hsiung's childhood trip to China exposed him to poverty and animal cruelty, leaving a lasting impact.
He witnessed children in starvation and dogs being killed for food, leading to night terrors.

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ANECDOTE

Academic Pressure and Depression

Hsiung felt immense pressure to become an academic, following a family tradition.
He struggled with depression and isolation in academia, leading him to leave.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

The Legal Battle Against Animal Cruelty Investigations

05:00 • 2min

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Journey of Identity and Activism

06:52 • 13min

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From Academia to Activism: Navigating Moral Complexities

20:02 • 12min

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From Theory to Practice: The Power of Real-World Experience

32:20 • 2min

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The Power of Nonviolent Activism

34:08 • 21min

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Behind the Veil: The Harsh Reality of Slaughterhouses

55:21 • 5min

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Ethics and Activism in Animal Rights

01:00:07 • 16min

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The Resilience of Lily: A Story of Animal Cruelty and Activism

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For most of his life, Wayne Hsiung was a typical overachiever. He attended the University of Chicago, started his PhD in Economics, became a law professor at Northwestern, was mentored by Cass Sunstein. But then, something snapped. In the midst of a deep, overwhelming depression, Hsiung visited a slaughterhouse and was radicalized by the immense suffering he saw. He now faces decades in prison for rescuing sick, injured animals from slaughterhouses.

Hsiung is the founder of Direct Action Everywhere, an organization best known for conducting public, open rescues of animals too sick for slaughter. These rescues are, in many cases, illegal, and Hsiung and his fellow activists are risking years of imprisonment. But the sacrifice is the point: Hsiung and his colleagues are trying to highlight the sickness of a society that criminalizes doing what any child would recognize as the right thing to do.

In our conversation, I wanted to understand a simple question: How did he get here? What leads someone with a safe, comfortable life to risk everything for a cause? What does society look like to him now, knowing what he faces? And the big question: Is Hsiung the weird one? Or is it all of us — who see so much suffering and injustice and simply go about our lives — who have lost our way?

References:

New York Times story on a DxE rescue mission

Video of the mission to save Lily the piglet

Book recommendations:

Everything is Obvious by Duncan J. Watts

The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky

Grit by Angela Duckworth

My book is available for pre-order! You can find it at www.EzraKlein.com.

Want to contact the show? Reach out at ezrakleinshow@vox.com

You can subscribe to Ezra's new podcast Impeachment, explained on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Overcast, Pocket Casts, or your favorite podcast app.

Credits:

Producer and Editor - Jeff Geld

Researcher - Roge Karma

Engineer - Jeremy Dalmas

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