ChinaTalk

Adam Tooze on World Order, Then and Now

Sep 18, 2020

Adam Tooze, an economic historian and professor at Columbia, joins Matt Klein, columnist and author, for a deep dive into history’s lessons for modern geopolitics. They discuss the parallels between 1920s economic models and today's U.S.-China relations. Tooze highlights how Nazi legal theory resonates in China and draws disturbing comparisons between Xinjiang's camps and Soviet gulags. The conversation also reflects on the historical context of oppression and power dynamics, aiming to unpack how past strategies can inform contemporary governance.

01:16:36

Creator website

Episode guests

Matt Klein

Adam Tooze

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Episode notes

Intro

4min

Shifting Powers: China and the Global Order

12min

Understanding China Through Historical Contexts

26min

Oppression Then and Now: A Comparative Analysis

5min

Historical Echoes: Lessons from WWII to Modern Governance

23min

Navigating the Risks of Contemporary Historical Analysis

4min

The Interplay of History and Contemporary Commentary

4min

Adam Tooze is my favorite economic historian. After writing a handful of books on the 1920s and Nazi economics, he's now turned his eye to the present day, taking on the financial crisis and US-China relations. In this conversation, we get into

What we can learn from the diplomatic and economic modes of 1920s and 30s
Why Nazi legal theory resonates so well in China today
How modes of understanding Nazi Germany can help illustrate China
How Xinjiang camps echo the logic of Soviet gulags
Whether the US in fact lost the Cold War
Adam's dream bureaucracies to work it

Matt Klein, author of the recent Trade Wars are Class Wars, guest hosts.

Intro and outtro music are both hit songs from 1928, the year of the Kellogg-Briand Pact which tried to outlaw war.

Intro music: Pine Top's Boogie Woogie

Outtro music: Blind Willie McTell, Statesboro Blues

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