Ascend - The Great Books Podcast Rhetoric and Philosophy: Part One of the Gorgias with Athenian Stranger and Johnathan Bi
Nov 11, 2025
Join Athenian Stranger, a Plato-focused educator, and Jonathan Bai, an independent scholar, as they dive into the complexities of Plato's Gorgias. They explore the conflict between Gorgias and Socrates, framing rhetoric as two competing 'technologies'—one empowering the individual, the other seeking truth. The trio discusses key themes like nihilism, the moral stakes of rhetoric, and the responsibility of educators. Expect philosophical gems and compelling insights that resonate with our modern world, challenging the nature of speech and its political impact.
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Rhetoric Vs. Philosophy As Competing Technologies
- Plato's Gorgias frames rhetoric vs. philosophy as competing "technologies" of speech with opposite ends: personal freedom/empire vs. knowledge of natures and causes.
- The dialogue exposes pleonexia (insatiable grasping) in interlocutors, showing rhetoric divorced from philosophy produces tyrannical souls.
Treat Teaching As Soul-Shaping Responsibility
- If you teach, recognize education changes souls and carries responsibility for students' formation.
- Shape student eros toward noble aims, because teachers' influence can produce either virtue or monstrous pleonexia.
Reading Plato Under The Stars
- Deacon Harrison Garlick describes reading the Gorgias while camping during hunting season to focus without artificial light.
- The solitude and stars helped him appreciate the dialogue's later sections and mythic ending.