Two Israel-Palestine Historians Explain: How Did We Get Here? And What Happens Next?
Oct 31, 2023
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Eminent Israeli historian Benny Morris walks us through the origins of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, while historian Zachary Foster explores the rise of Hamas. They discuss Israel's military response and the future of the conflict, emphasizing the 'missing moderate middle' on both sides.
The podcast provides a historical overview of the origins of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, tracing the arrival of Hebrews and Arab Muslim conquest.
The episode explores the history and emergence of Hamas as a political and militant organization, highlighting Israeli actions that led to its radicalization.
The ongoing division between Fatah and Hamas, external pressures, ideological differences, and lack of unity among Palestinians impede progress towards a two-state solution.
Deep dives
The Origins of Zionism and Relations Between Jews and Muslims
The podcast episode provides a historical overview of the origins of Zionism and the relations between Jews and Muslims in Palestine. It begins by tracing the arrival of the Hebrews and the subsequent Arab Muslim conquest of the region. Friction between the Jewish settlers and the indigenous Arab population arises, leading to clashes and misunderstandings. The Balfour Declaration in 1917, which supported the establishment of a Jewish national home, further intensifies tensions. The episode also explores the aftermath of World War II, the Holocaust, and the UN General Assembly Partition Resolution of 1947, which recommended dividing the land into two states, Jewish and Arab. The episode highlights the complex historical context that shaped the Israel-Palestine conflict.
The Role of Hamas and the Impact of the Gaza Blockade
The podcast delves into the history and emergence of Hamas as a political and militant organization. It traces the trajectory from their initial formation as an Islamic charity to their transformation into a resistance movement. The episode highlights how Israeli actions, especially during the First Intifada, led to the radicalization of Hamas. It explores the blockade imposed on Gaza since 2007, which aimed to punish the population for electing Hamas. The blockade has limited the import and export of goods, devastated Gaza's economy, and left the majority of people dependent on aid. The episode also discusses the challenges of polling public opinion in Gaza due to the autocratic nature of Hamas' rule.
The Struggle for Reconciliation and the Failure of the Peace Process
The podcast addresses the ongoing division between Fatah and Hamas and the obstacles to reconciliation. It highlights how external pressures from the international community and Israel have hindered negotiations between the two factions. The episode also underlines ideological differences and disagreements surrounding previous agreements, such as the Oslo process. The role of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in maintaining division and weakening Fatah is discussed. The episode emphasizes that the lack of unity among Palestinians has impeded progress towards a two-state solution and the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Context of 1948 and Arab-Israeli War
In 1947, the Jews accepted the United Nations General Assembly proposal for partition, while the Arabs rejected it and attacked the Jews. The Jews, being stronger and better organized, took over parts of Palestine, including some areas assigned to Arab statehood. The Arab states invaded, but the Jews ultimately defeated them. During the war, both sides committed atrocities, with the Jews overrunning hundreds of Arab villages. The war ended with the division of the land, leaving about 700,000 Arabs as refugees.
Gaza Strip and Israeli Occupation
The Gaza Strip was occupied by the Egyptian army in the 1948 war and remained under Egyptian control until 1956, when Israel conquered it. However, under pressure from Russia and the United States, Israel withdrew from Gaza in 1956, and it reverted to Egyptian control until 1967. The living conditions in Gaza, even before the recent shelling, were dire, with lack of access to fresh drinking water, high unemployment, and electricity shortages. These conditions have led to despair among the population and contributed to atrocities, including the October 7th attack.
The eminent Israeli historian Benny Morris walks us through the origins of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, from antiquity to October 7. And the excellent historian of Palestine, Zachary Foster, digs into the often misunderstood history of the rise of Hamas. Finally, both share their thoughts on Israel's military response, the future of the conflict, and the "missing moderate middle" on both sides.
If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com.