Mind & Life

Hanne De Jaegher – Making Sense Together

Nov 30, 2023

Wendy speaks with philosopher Hanne De Jaegher. They discuss sense-making and embodiment in cognition, the primacy of interaction, emotional capacity and dementia, understanding autistic individuals, problems with social media discouraging interaction, the tension between self and interdependence, and applying these ideas to our relationship with nature.

56:23

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Episode guests

Hanne De Jaegher

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Episode notes

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Quick takeaways

Understanding and embracing the different ways autistic individuals interact is crucial for inclusivity and respect in society.

Recognizing that conflicts and tensions are normal in relationships helps foster ongoing understanding, communication, and love.

Participatory sense-making theory extends beyond interpersonal interactions to social justice movements and our relationship with nature.

Deep dives

Autistic people challenging non-autistic people to embrace different ways of interacting

In the autism communities, autistic people are speaking up and showing that their ways of interacting are equally valid. Non-autistic people are being called upon to adjust and embrace these different ways of interacting instead of expecting autistic individuals to assimilate to neurotypical norms.

Introduction

2min

Understanding Behavior and the Importance of Context

32min

Silence, Understanding, and Connection

8min

Exploring the Multifaceted Nature of Individual Identity and Interactions

3min

Synthesis, Integration, and the Constant Dialectic Movement

8min

The Role of Listening and Philosophy in Our Relationship with Nature

2min

In this episode, Wendy speaks with philosopher and cognitive scientist Hanne De Jaegher. Hanne was influenced by Francisco Varela's ideas from an early age, and has been working to extend enactive theories of mind into social contexts. This conversation covers many topics, including:

roots in Varela's work and an early interest in thinking;
sense-making and embodiment as foundational to cognition;
how our habits and models fit (or don't) with our experience;
participatory sense-making and the primacy of interaction;
how interpersonal dynamics can have a life of their own;
loving and knowing, letting others be;
over- vs. underdetermining (how our projections of others shape interactions);
emotional capacity and dementia;
understanding autistic people from their own side;
the need for people in dominant positions to listen;
the importance of silence in dialogue;
problems with the way social media platforms discourage interaction;
interactions within one person;
synthesis and breakdown;
tension between self and interdependence (creating boundaries);
and applying these ideas to our relationship with nature.

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Mind & Life

Hanne De Jaegher – Making Sense Together

Episode guests

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Deep dives

Autistic people challenging non-autistic people to embrace different ways of interacting

The importance of understanding how we think, work, and play together

The tension and complexity of relationships and maintaining identities

Participatory sense-making and its application to autism and neurodiversity

The potential for participatory sense-making to address social justice and environmental issues

Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts