"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

Dr. Michael Levin on Embodied Minds and Cognitive Agents

Feb 9, 2024

Dr. Michael Levin, a renowned biology professor at Tufts University, explores the fascinating intersection of biology and artificial intelligence. He discusses embodied minds and the potential of bioelectricity in limb regeneration. The conversation dives into innovative research on cellular behavior, highlighting genetic algorithms and the emergence of intelligence in simple biological systems. Levin challenges traditional definitions of life and machines, proposing a future where cognitive agents blur those boundaries, and emphasizes the ethical implications of these advancements.

01:25:43

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Michael Levin

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Quick takeaways

Binary categories like life and machine are subjective and dependent on perspective, challenging traditional distinctions.

Intelligence can exist at small scales, debunking the notion that it is exclusive to larger systems.

Categorical distinctions based on origin or manufacturing process are inadequate for understanding unconventional embodiments.

Exploration of cognitive boundaries requires reevaluating understanding and developing new frameworks to navigate complex phenomena.

Deep dives

Emergence and the Blurring of Boundaries

The distinction between life and machine, as well as other binary categories like emergent and non-emergent, is subjective and dependent on the observer's perspective. These terms serve as engineering protocol claims, representing different models and utility from different viewpoints. The idea of emergence is tied to surprise and can vary from observer to observer. It is important not to make assumptions about these categories, as they do not have objective truths. Experimental investigations and empirical evidence are essential in understanding the capabilities and behaviors of different systems.

Decentralized Sorting Algorithm with Defective Cells

02:00

The Tane Framework: Different Levels of Framing for Understanding Systems

01:21

The Continuum of Cognition

00:55

The Nature of Embodiment and Symbol Grounding

01:22

Intro

2min

Blurring Boundaries: Biology Meets AI

12min

Manipulating Cellular Behavior through Computational Models

3min

Parallels of AI and Biological Systems

17min

Emergent Behavior in Chimeric Cell Algorithms

6min

Blurring Life and Machines

21min

Exploring AI through Biological Principles

25min

In this episode, Dr Michael Levin, Distinguished Professor of Biology at Tufts University, joins Nathan to discuss embodied minds, his research into limb regeneration and collective intelligence, cognitive light cones, and much more. Michael and the Levin Lab work at the intersection of biology, artificial life, bioengineering, synthetic morphology, and cognitive science.

LINKS:

The Levin Lab and Dr. Michael Levin’s research: https://drmichaellevin.org/resources/

Dr Michael Levin’s blog: https://thoughtforms.life/about/

Tufts University Faculty Profile: https://as.tufts.edu/biology/people/faculty/michael-levin

Michael Levin @ Wyss Institute: https://wyss.harvard.edu/team/associate-faculty/michael-levin-ph-d/

Dr. Levin’s Research on Limb Regeneration: https://news.uchicago.edu/how-bioelectricity-could-regrow-limbs-and-organs

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@labenz (Nathan)

@drmichaellevin (Michael)

@CogRev_Podcast

Timestamps:

(00:00) Preview

(01:07) Intro and summary

(05:40) Xenobots, anthrobots and the other creatures created by Mike Levin

(09:39) Bioelectric memory rewriting

(15:01) Sponsor | BraveSearch API

(16:09) The difficulty of conducting simulations, which involve running forward passes to predict and alter electrical patterns

(20:30) The concept of backpropagation and mode switching in AI models

(23:06) Why humans do not regenerate their limbs

(37:10) Sponsor | Netsuite

(39:40) Learning from small and biological systems onto the concept of possible emergence

(45:16) The criticality of multiple scale questions and would a single scale?

(55:49) The concept of the cognitive light cone

(59:43) Advice on habits of mind and suggestions for inspiration on the AI side

(1:13:36) Mike's suggested directions for the AI developers

(1:24:49) Wrap & Sponsor | Omneky

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

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