When is suffering good? (with Paul Bloom)

Nov 11, 2021

Paul Bloom, a distinguished psychology professor at the University of Toronto and Yale, delves into the paradox of suffering, exploring when it can actually be beneficial. He examines how challenges can lead to greater pleasure and personal growth, drawing on examples from BDSM and storytelling. The discussion also touches on the intricacies of motivation, the moral dilemmas surrounding suffering, and the vital distinction between compassion and empathy. Bloom's insights prompt listeners to reconsider the true nature of pleasure and the ethics of our actions.

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INSIGHT

Chosen vs. Unchosen Suffering

Unchosen suffering, like illness or loss, is generally bad.
Chosen suffering, like in horror movies or spicy food, can enhance pleasure or meaning.

ANECDOTE

Ultra-Runner and Suffering

An ultra-runner uses the slogan "suffering is glorious" to reframe pain as a metric of accomplishment.
This highlights the clarity of focus and escape from self that suffering can induce.

ANECDOTE

Sparring and Bouldering

Spencer Greenberg and Paul Bloom discuss activities like sparring and bouldering.
These activities provide intense focus and a temporary escape from self.

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Read the full transcript here.

When (if ever) can suffering be good? Is there an optimal ratio of pleasure to pain? What is motivational pluralism? Can large, positive incentives be coercive? (For example, is it coercive to offer to pay someone enormous amounts of money to do something relatively benign or even painful or immoral?) How can moving from making judgments about a person's actions to making judgments about their character solve certain moral puzzles? Why do we sometimes make seemingly irrational judgments about the relative badness of certain actions? How does the level of controversy around an action factor into how much we publicly disapprove of it? What are the differences between compassion and empathy? Is antisocial personality disorder (AKA psychopathy or sociopathy) defined only by a lack of empathy? How have humans evolved (or not) to detect and mitigate the effects of others who feel no remorse? Is altruism especially vulnerable to remorseless people? What are the differences between narcissists and sociopaths?

Paul Bloom is Professor of Psychology at the University of Toronto, and Brooks and Suzanne Ragen Professor Emeritus of Psychology at Yale University. Paul Bloom studies how children and adults make sense of the world, with special focus on pleasure, morality, religion, fiction, and art. He has won numerous awards for his research and teaching. He is past-president of the Society for Philosophy and Psychology, and co-editor of Behavioral and Brain Sciences. He has written for scientific journals such as Nature and Science, and for popular outlets such as The New York Times, The Guardian, The New Yorker, and The Atlantic Monthly. He is the author of six books, including his most recent, The Sweet Spot: The Pleasures of Suffering and the Search for Meaning. Find more about him at paulbloom.net, or follow him on Twitter at @paulbloomatyale.

Further reading

"Friction in Relationships from Misunderstanding the Mind" by Spencer Greenberg

Staff

Spencer Greenberg — Host / Director
Josh Castle — Producer
Ryan Kessler — Audio Engineer
Uri Bram — Factotum
Janaisa Baril — Transcriptionist

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