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The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
198. Enlightenment and the Righteous Mind | Steven Pinker and Jonathan Haidt
Oct 25, 2021
02:09:58
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Quick takeaways
- The introduction of social media buttons has intensified polarization and reinforced extremist views.
- Online engagement has weaponized moralism and eroded truth, leading to a decline in informed discourse.
- Contemporary activism lacks problem-solving mindset, endangering liberal democracy.
- Rationality and technology struggle to inspire meaningful change without emotional engagement.
- Shared activities that require interdependence foster strong bonds among individuals.
Deep dives
The Changing Dynamics of Social Media
The introduction of like and retweet buttons on social media platforms in 2009 has led to a feedback loop that intensifies polarization and reinforces extremist views. Algorithms now shape our social interactions and information consumption, creating echo chambers and bubbles that isolate individuals from diverse perspectives.
The Fragility of Liberal Democracy
The institutions of liberal democracy are facing significant challenges, particularly due to the power of social media activism and the erosion of truth. The dynamics of online engagement have resulted in the weaponization of moralism and the intimidation of opposing viewpoints, leading to a decline in informed discourse and a rise in factionalism.
The Need for Problem Solving Mindsets
There is a growing concern that contemporary activism lacks the depth of understanding and problem-solving mindset necessary for effective change. The rise of social media activism has led to the dominance of unmoored moralism and an absence of mature judgment. To safeguard liberal democracy, it is crucial to minimize the dangerous passions of extremism and focus on finding practical solutions to complex societal problems.
The Limits of Rationality in Inspiring Change
While rationality and technology have driven progress in various aspects of society, they often struggle to inspire and motivate individuals to effect meaningful change. The lack of romance and drama associated with rational argumentation and problem-solving fails to engage the emotions and mobilize people toward constructive social movements.
The importance of shared activities for bonding in groups
Humans are at their best and happiest when engaging in shared activities that require interdependence and reliance on each other. It is through these activities that strong bonds are formed, even if individuals have diverse backgrounds and beliefs.
The role of imitation and collaborative exploration in group cohesion
Imitation is a crucial human ability that allows for fast learning and collaboration. By imitating and learning from others, individuals can explore and navigate the world more effectively. This ability to imitate and explore together fosters a sense of unity and cohesion within a group.
The evolution of group selection and the significance of disgust
Humans have evolved in groups and engage in intergroup competition. Shared intentionality enables cooperation, and the ability to be disgusted by certain things plays a role in constructing group norms and boundaries. Disgust and the need for purity and sanctity are essential in driving cultural practices, including religious rituals.
The Role of Imitation in Religion
The podcast episode explores the role of imitation in religion and how it contributes to the unity within a culture. The idea is that cultures imitate ancestral spirits through generations, connecting people and creating a shared personality or animating spirit. The central uniting principle of a culture is what constitutes the essence of the religion. The discussion highlights the importance of imitating sacred ideals and how it brings people together, such as in musical performances where individuals move as one and imitate the music.
Disgust and Political Beliefs
The episode also delves into the relationship between disgust and political beliefs. It brings up the concept of disgust sensitivity and how it can influence political ideologies. It suggests that conservatives tend to be more threat-sensitive, which may be related to their higher levels of orderliness and lower levels of openness to experience. The discussion explores how disgust sensitivity can shape political viewpoints, including a stronger focus on security and an emphasis on maintaining social and cultural boundaries. This connection between disgust, conservatism, and insecurity provides an interesting perspective on the underpinnings of political beliefs.
31.
I'm a Man and My Wife's a Woman, Therefore I Must Be Motivated to Have Power Over My Wife
4min
This episode was recorded on June 6th, 2021.
Dr Peterson, Steven Pinker, and Jonathan Haidt sit down to discuss truth, how societies function, utopias, the role of religion, & more.
Steven Pinker is a psychology professor at Harvard. He's the author of Enlightenment Now and The Blank Slate. His 12th book, "Rationality," is out now. Dr. Pinker has received many awards and often writes for The Guardian and The NY Times.
Jonathan Haidt is a social psychologist at NYU Stern. His research focuses on the intuitive foundations of morality across cultures. He's the author of The Righteous Mind and The Coddling of the American Mind. His next book, "Three Stories about Capitalism," is expected by 2022.
Follow Steven's Twitter:
https://twitter.com/sapinker
Read Steven Pinker's book:
https://stevenpinker.com/publications/rationality-what-it-why-it-seems-so-scarce-and-why-it-matters
Find more Jonathan Haidt here:
https://www.thecoddling.com/
Read Jonathan's book:
https://www.amazon.com/Coddling-American-Mind-Intentions-Generation/dp/0735224919
Jonathan's most recent essay:
https://www.persuasion.community/p/haidt-monomania-is-illiberal-and
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[0:00] Intro
[00:18] Jordan introduces guests Dr. Stephen Pinker and Dr. Jonathan Haidt
[02:47] Catching up with the recent research and endeavors of Jonathan Haidt. Elaborating on the framework of moralism versus true and false when viewing the world
[07:00] How cognitive biases lead to a more pessimistic view of the world
[10:30] The problems with the idea of utopia and its beneficial uses when properly inserted into a society's belief (religious) structure
[18:00] Examining the role group religions play in bringing people together
[24:30] Jordan highlights the role he believes Christianity had in turning people's attention to the evil within us all
[29:30] Reflections on Enlightenment Now. How do you engage people towards a higher set of goals without religion as a backbone?
[38:00] Is the world we live in a new frontier based on the expanding influence of the internet and social media on individuals' decision-making?
[48:00] Discussion on the dangers posed by the new world to the endurance of liberal democracies
[56:00] Finding truth in the post-2012 social media revolution
[1:06:00] The rate of change in modern life
[1:07:00] The Righteous Mind, Haidt's interpretation of the religious instinct/impulse and why he gets a positive reaction from religious crowds
[1:06:00] Saying goodbye to Dr. Pinker due to time constraints
[1:17:30] The human ability for imitation through learning or exploring
[1:25:30] Religion as a social function? Or an inherent impulse inside us all to find higher states?
[1:29:30] Comparing views on the central uniting principle of groups, societies, or human beings for that matter
[1:33:00] Is the extreme claim that power is the central driving factor of western European civilization grounded in reality?
[1:37:52] Is having a common purpose or shared beliefs a more powerful way of bringing people together?
[1:45:00] Recounting Haidt's research on disgust in both humans and animals
[1:52:00] Exploring any correlation to disgust levels and political beliefs/alliance
[02:02:30] Wrapping up
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