How To Win An Election How To Take On The Flabby State (With Michael Gove)
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Apr 10, 2025 
In this engaging discussion, Michael Gove, former cabinet minister and currently the editor of The Spectator, shares insights from his first encounter with Donald Trump, revealing the quirky details of Trump’s ‘man cave’. The group dives into Keir Starmer's challenge of reforming the so-called 'flabby state', exploring whether it’s possible to navigate bureaucratic hurdles without conflict. The conversation also critiques public inquiries, shedding light on their inefficiencies and costs, making for a thought-provoking yet entertaining listen.
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Trump's Ego Wall
- Michael Gove interviewed Donald Trump in 2017, finding his office covered in self-promoting images.
- Trump's focus seemed to be on being liked or crushing those he disliked.
Number 10 and Chaos
- Number 10, with its small team, can handle short-term crises well due to quick decision-making.
- Long-term strategic planning is more difficult in this environment due to uncertainty.
Trump's Interview Style
- Trump's interview style was a rambling "weave" of thoughts and observations.
- His office was a shrine to himself, with Trump-themed memorabilia everywhere.