Navigating Political Ideology: Lessons from History

Danny's away, so Sally, Polly and Hugo are joined by former cabinet minister and politest man in politics, Michael Gove. What did he learn about Donald Trump's 'man cave' when he interviewed him the first time round?

And, Keir Starmer wants to tackle what he calls the 'flabby state' - Is that the same as the 'blob', and can you reform Whitehall without going to war with it?

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