The Gray Area with Sean Illing

The frightening fragility of America's political institutions

Jul 9, 2020

Masha Gessen, a renowned Staff writer at The New Yorker and author of 'Surviving Autocracy', shares their insights on the fragility of American political institutions. They discuss the eerie parallels between Trump's presidency and the rise of authoritarianism, emphasizing the need for vigilance against normalized extremism. Gessen explores how language influences political discourse and the collective nature of leadership. With a unique perspective shaped by their experience in Russia, they reflect on the declining state of democracy and the unsettling dynamics within American politics.

01:09:28

Episode guests

Masha Gessen

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Episode notes

Intro

2min

Language, Democracy, and Political Fragility

18min

The Duality of Leadership and Human Nature

14min

Measuring Political Popularity in Uncertain Times

3min

Navigating Political Complexity: Trump, Biden, and Democracy

11min

Navigating Political Discourse

8min

Trump, Politics, and Race

11min

Exploring Autocracy Through Literature

2min

Masha Gessen grew up in the Soviet Union and spent two decades covering the resurgence of totalitarianism in Russia, before being driven from the country by policies targeting LGBT people. Watching Donald Trump win in 2016, Gessen felt like they had seen this movie before. Within forty-eight hours of Trump’s victory, Gessen’s essay “Autocracy: Rules for Survival” had gone viral, including lessons that in hindsight read as prophetic: Believe the autocrat. Do not be taken in by small signs of normality. Institutions will not save you.

Now, Gessen is back with a new book, Surviving Autocracy, that is a collection of ideas they have been building over the course of the Trump presidency. We discuss the inherent fragility of American political institutions, Donald Trump’s autocratic aesthetic, how the language of liberal democracy paradoxically undermines genuine liberal democracy, what lessons Gessen learned from covering the rise of Vladamir Putin, why Gessen believes the US is currently in the first stage of the three part descent to autocracy, whether George W. Bush was a more damaging president than Donald Trump, the counterintuitive roots of Trumpian post-truthism, and much more.

Book recommendation:

The Post-Communist Mafia State by Balint Magyar

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Credits:

Producer/Editer/ Audio Master Jeff Geld

Researcher - Roge Karma

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