S5 E9 Lonnie Wilson – Carrying On the Deming Torch

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Jul 7, 2025

Lonnie Wilson, a former Chevron senior manager and dedicated Deming enthusiast, shares his transformative journey through the lens of W. Edwards Deming's philosophies on management and quality. He recounts attending Deming's seminar and grappling with the enigmatic nature of his teachings. The conversation navigates the challenges of applying Deming’s principles in corporate settings, addressing the tension between abstract concepts and practical applications. Lonnie raises intriguing questions about intellectual elitism in management, the nuances of cultural change, and the ongoing relevance of Deming's legacy.

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ANECDOTE

Instant Clarity From A Workshop Question

Lonnie attended Deming's four-day workshop and asked him what two things managers should learn.
Deming instantly said: the difference between common and special cause variation and the use of operational definitions.

ANECDOTE

No Direct Answer On Appraisals

Chevron attendees repeatedly asked Deming what to replace performance appraisals with and he refused to give a direct answer.
After several repeats he finally said, "do whatever Peter Schultes tells you to do."

ANECDOTE

Getting Deming's Contract By Request

Lonnie contacted Deming and received a copy of Deming's contract after being encouraged by David Chambers.
He later lost the contract but still treasures the interaction and documentation.

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I have a fantastic conversation with Lonnie Wilson in this episode, diving deep into W. Edwards Deming’s seminal perspectives on quality, systems thinking, and the enduring challenges of operationalizing his philosophy in the real world. Lonnie also shares how his initial admiration for Chevron's management practices began to unravel after encountering Deming's writings in the mid-1980s.

The episode opens with Lonnie recounting his experience attending one of Deming's four-day seminars. His anecdote about Deming’s instantaneous answer to a deceptively simple question. Lonnie reflects on Deming's often enigmatic style, particularly his refusal to provide concrete answers to complex management questions, such as what to replace performance appraisals with.

We explore the tension between Deming’s abstract guidance and the practical application of his ideas in corporate environments. Lonnie shares his journey of attempting to implement cultural change through Deming’s 14 Points, only to face organizational resistance and surface-level interest. This led him to develop pragmatic systems that bridged the gap between Deming's theory and the day-to-day realities of business operations.

Lonnie and I delve into critical questions: Was Deming’s refusal to provide prescriptive answers a form of intellectual elitism or a deliberate nudge toward self-discovery? How did his lack of direct management experience influence his worldview? Lonnie argues that while Deming's concepts were revolutionary, they were often delivered without a “method for method,” leaving followers to forge their paths.

The conversation concludes on a reflective note, with both of us acknowledging that, despite the depth and accuracy of Deming’s ideas, much of the corporate world has either misunderstood or ignored them. If Deming were alive today, Lonnie believes he would be dismayed by the lack of progress in management thinking and would challenge his disciples to evolve and iterate on his foundational work.