The Lawfare Podcast Lawfare Archive: David Rohde on the Supposed "Deep State"
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Feb 15, 2025 
In this engaging discussion, David Rohde, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist from The New Yorker and author of "In Deep," dives into the complexities of the 'deep state.' He explores historical tensions between U.S. presidents and intelligence agencies, revealing how these conflicts have shaped public perception. Rohde addresses the decline in trust in government and the misuse of the 'deep state' concept for political manipulation. With sharp insights, he sheds light on the need for oversight, transparency, and rebuilding public confidence in national security institutions.
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Rohde's Background
- David Rohde's background includes covering wars and conflicts, including a kidnapping by the Taliban.
- This experience informed his interest in national security and law enforcement agencies.
Differing Views on the Deep State
- Liberals view the "deep state" as the military-industrial complex, fearing excessive war.
- Conservatives see it as the administrative state, fearing government overreach.
Success of Church Committee Reforms
- The Church Committee reforms were successful in establishing oversight of intelligence agencies.
- These reforms increased public trust by creating mechanisms like the FISA court and term limits for the FBI director.
