Our post-American future — what will the new world order look like?

12 snips

Jun 11, 2025

Hugh White, an Australian Defence Analyst and Emeritus Professor of Strategic Studies at ANU, addresses the shifting global power dynamics. He points out Australia's denial of the post-American landscape, urging a re-evaluation of alliances with nations like the U.S. and China. White highlights key events shaping this new order, including AUKUS and the Ukraine war, and warns against outdated defense strategies. He calls for a proactive approach to national security, reflecting on historical precedents as Australia navigates its future in a multipolar world.

Ask episode

AI Snips

Chapters

Transcript

Episode notes

INSIGHT

2000: The Sweet Spot of American Power

The year 2000 represented a sweet spot with America as the unchallenged dominant power in Asia and globally.
Australia's current political leadership still clings to the outdated assumption that this era is normal and ongoing.

INSIGHT

Australia's False Hope: Avoiding Choice

Australia's previous belief that it could avoid choosing between the US and China is now obsolete.
China no longer accepts America as the leading power and is contesting dominance in Asia.

INSIGHT

Trump: America's New Normal

Donald Trump's revolution in US politics reveals deep institutional weaknesses.
His presidency marks a new normal, challenging America's traditional global leadership role.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Get the app

Defence analyst Hugh White says Australian leaders are in denial about how dramatically the world has changed, and need to get a grip on the deep, troubling forces propelling us into a new order of world power.

The balance of global power has changed dramatically over the last 25 years.

Even in the last five years, so much has happened - the pandemic, AUKUS, the war in Ukraine, a change of government here in Australia, Donald Trump's return to the White House, and all the tumult that has followed over the past six months.

According to defence analyst Hugh White, we are quickly heading into a post-American world.

However, Australia's defence assumptions remain based on a world which America built for us, where the United States is still a predominant world power that is heavily invested in Asia, and in us.

Hugh says political leaders in Australia are in denial about all of this, and need to get their heads out of the sand, accept the the world as we knew it is passing away, and redefine our relationships with powerful nations including the United States and China in order to make our way in this new world.

We've done it before, with the United Kingdom in the post-World War II years, and we need to do it again, Hugh says.

Further information

You can read Hugh White's essay, Hard New World: Our Post-American Future, in the June issue of the Quarterly Essay.

If you're interested in more episodes like this one, have a listen to Richard's recent conversation with Marcel Dirsus about tyrants and dictators on the ABC Listen App, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Find out more about the Conversations Live National Tour on the ABC website.

Conversations' Executive Producer is Nicola Harrison. This episode was produced by Jennifer Leake and presented by Richard Fidler.

This episode of Conversations explores nuclear war, Russian expansionism, Ukraine, Putin, Donald Trump, Elon Musk, Los Angeles protests, riots, political landscape, Lauren Tomasi, ANZUS, Asia-Pacific, Xi Jinping, Taiwan, invasion, California, the decline of the West, National Guard, law enforcement, ICE.