People and Projects Podcast: Project Management Podcast

PPP 472 | Why Lean Matters--and What You Need to Know, with Toyota Veteran Mark Reich

Jul 31, 2025

Mark Reich, a former leader at Toyota and current Chief Engineer for Strategy at the Lean Enterprise Institute, shares invaluable insights on lean thinking. He explains the importance of hoshin kanri in aligning purpose within organizations. Reich emphasizes that lean is more than just tools; it's about developing people and engagement. He discusses escaping the firefighting trap and why metrics alone can't secure strategic clarity. Interestingly, he even applies lean principles to parenting, illustrating its versatility beyond the workplace.

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INSIGHT

Vision Without Execution Fails

Many organizations have visions in slide decks but lack concrete methods to achieve them.
Hoshin Kanri builds leadership alignment and creates a management system to execute vision.

ADVICE

Tools Serve Purpose, Not Vice Versa

Do not focus on tools like Hoshin Kanri matrices but on the purpose they serve.
Use tools as aids, not ends; purpose guides their effective use and meaning.

ADVICE

Start Small and Engage Everyone

Start strategic alignment by focusing on a few critical objectives rather than many.
Engage all levels of the organization to break down responsibilities and learn from doing.

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Summary

In this episode, Andy welcomes Mark Reich, a former Toyota leader and current Chief Engineer for Strategy at the Lean Enterprise Institute. Mark is the author of Managing on Purpose. If you’ve ever tried to improve your team but felt like your strategy was stuck in a slide deck, this conversation is for you.

Mark introduces the idea of hoshin kanri, a lesser-known but critical pillar of Toyota’s management system, and explains how lean thinking is more than just tools--it's a way of developing people and aligning purpose across an organization. You’ll hear why metrics alone won’t get you to strategic clarity, how to escape the trap of firefighting, and why engagement, not just direction, is the key to long-term improvement. He also shares how lean thinking can be applied at home, even with your kids!

If you’re looking for insights on how to align teams, build capability, and lead with greater purpose, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

"Don't focus on the tool. The tools have to serve a purpose."
“Catchball is not just a handoff of plans. It’s a conversation about what matters and how we’ll learn together.”
“Direction without development is just pressure.”
They’re not called punishment calls. They’re called co-learning calls.
“If strategy feels like something being done to people, you’ve already lost.”
“You don’t learn PDCA by attending a training. You learn it by doing it, with guidance, reflection, and coaching.”
“It’s not just about solving the problem. It’s about who solves it and how they do it.”
“We had to change how we talked about strategy before we could change how we worked on strategy.”

Chapters

00:00 Introduction
01:49 Start of Interview
02:01 What early experiences shaped your views on leadership, strategy, or lean?
05:28 How do you explain TPS and hoshin kanri as two pillars of Toyota’s system?
10:36 What are common mistakes leaders make when trying to improve the business?
15:23 Where do you coach people to start when they want better alignment?
17:40 What myths or misunderstandings do people have about lean?
18:12 Case study example: Turner Construction
25:45 What lean tools or concepts should project managers explore more deeply?
29:24 Where do you recommend someone begin learning about lean?
34:47 How has lean thinking helped at home—and with raising kids?
36:09 End of Interview
36:36 Andy Comments After the Interview
40:53 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Mark Reich and his work at the Lean Enterprise Institute at Lean.org.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

Episode 438 with Jeff Gothelf. It’s a book about OKRs, which is different from hoshin kanri, but the overall discussion is worth checking out.
Episode 387 with Atif Rafiq. It’s a book that has a strategic approach to dealing with uncertainty.
Episode 320 with Greg Githins. It’s more about how to think strategically.

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Talent Triangle: Business Acumen

Topics: Lean, Toyota Production System, Hoshin Kanri, Strategy, Organizational Alignment, Leadership Development, Continuous Improvement, Team Engagement, Project Management, PDCA, Capability Building, Coaching

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Underground Shadows by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Synthiemania by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license