More Humane Work With Joe O'Connor - TWMJ #1018

Jan 11, 2026

In this conversation, Joe O'Connor, CEO of Work Time Revolution and co-author of 'Do More in Four,' delves into the fading relevance of the five-day workweek. He discusses how burnout and outdated productivity metrics are reshaping our work culture, especially in the AI era. Joe makes a compelling case for the four-day workweek as a strategy not just for efficiency, but as a societal benefit. He also highlights the importance of collective solutions to improve equity in the workforce while navigating the flexibility versus structural change debate.

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INSIGHT

Workweek Is A Design Choice

The five-day, eight-hour workweek is a recent, man-made design rooted in industrial-era needs.
It no longer fits a knowledge economy where hours ≠ output, so the default needs reevaluation.

INSIGHT

Hours Don’t Equal Knowledge Work Output

Productivity measured as output per hour made sense for assembly lines but fails for knowledge work.
In a digital, dual-income age we need new productivity definitions tied to outcomes not hours.

INSIGHT

Four Days As A Time Dividend

A four-day week can act as a policy lever to share AI productivity gains with workers.
Framing reduced hours as a time dividend makes it a strategic business tool, not a perk.

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Welcome to episode #1018 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation).

At a moment when burnout is normalized and productivity is still measured by hours rather than impact, the five-day workweek is starting to look less like a foundation of modern life and more like an outdated design choice. Joe O'Connoris the CEO of Work Time Revolution and one of the world's leading architects of the four-day workweek, having designed and led large-scale pilots across multiple countries, industries and organizational types. His work sits at the intersection of labor economics, organizational culture and performance design, helping companies rethink how work actually gets done in a knowledge-based, AI-accelerated economy. Joe has advised governments, nonprofits and private-sector leaders on how to redesign work in ways that improve employee well-being while maintaining (or increasing) organizational performance, challenging deeply held assumptions about time, output and commitment. His new book, Do More In Four - Why It's Time For A Shorter Workweek (with co-author Jared Lindzon), brings together research, real-world case studies and global experimentation to argue that the five-day workweek is neither inevitable nor optimal. Joe shows how reducing work time can sharpen focus, improve equity and force organizations to confront outdated productivity metrics built for an industrial era. He also examines how AI is accelerating the need for new work models, exposing the inefficiencies of activity-based measurement and pushing leaders to define productivity in terms of outcomes, not presence. Grounded in data yet pragmatic about cultural resistance, Joe's perspective positions the four-day workweek not as an employee concession, but as a competitive advantage for organizations willing to rethink the rules of work before the market forces them to. Enjoy the conversation…

Running time: 55:55.
Hello from beautiful Montreal.
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Here is my conversation with Joe O'Connor.
Do More In Four - Why It's Time For A Shorter Workweek.
Work Time Revolution.
Jared Lindzon.
Follow Joe on LinkedIn.

Chapters:

(00:00) - The Evolution of the Work Week. (02:57) - Rethinking Productivity in the Age of AI. (05:50) - Work-Life Balance: A Modern Dilemma. (09:09) - The Four-Day Work Week: A Societal Aspiration. (12:08) - AI's Impact on Work Structures. (15:03) - Cultural Dynamics in Work Environments. (17:58) - Challenges in Implementing Change. (21:09) - Market Forces and the Future of Work. (29:56) - The Evolution of the Four-Day Work Week. (35:30) - Measuring Productivity in a New Work Model. (42:15) - Cultural Dynamics and Leadership in the Four-Day Work Week. (48:55) - AI's Role in Shaping Future Work Models. (53:22) - Gender Equality and Flexibility in the Workplace.