20VC: NEW FORMAT: Mega Funds Will Come Back, Why Markups Have Corrupted VC, Why RIFs Should Always Be An Embarrassment To SaaS Founders and Why Pitching is BS and Fake with Jason Lemkin and Rick Zullo
Aug 23, 2023
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Jason Lemkin, founder of SaaStr, and Rick Zullo, co-founder of Equal Ventures, discuss the need for change in venture capital, the shift away from unicorn investing, and the importance of growth for founders. They also emphasize the value of a well-structured pitch and share insights on investing mistakes and VC spending in AI.
Venture capital will see a resurgence of mega funds in 2024 and 2025.
Founders should prioritize growth and focus on building sustainable and profitable businesses.
Venture capitalists need to be honest with LPs about valuations and potential markdowns.
Deep dives
Resurgence of mega funds expected in late 2024 and 2025
The speaker predicts a resurgence of mega funds in late 2024 and 2025, dismissing the notion that it is hard to raise a fund or that LPs are cutting back. They believe that when times are good, money will flood into the industry. They discuss two ways to build a unicorn - stair stepping and swinging for the fences. They emphasize the importance of not running out of money and being more efficient in the face of changing market dynamics.
Re-evaluating the role of VCs and founders
The conversation explores the changing dynamics and responsibilities of VCs and founders. They discuss the significance of board control, the need for founders to be more self-aware and capable of managing finances, and the importance of productive pushback from investors. They also touch on the potential impact of multi-stage funds displacing seed funds and the need for founders to focus on building sustainable and profitable businesses.
The future of venture capital and efficiency
The conversation delves into the future of venture capital and the need for founders to be more efficient in the coming years. They highlight the necessity of focusing on business model quality, return on equity, and path to profitability. They discuss the potential re-emergence of bridge rounds and the increasing importance of financial acumen in assessing potential investments. They also reflect on the role of pitching, the art form of selling a vision, and the need for founders to be both exceptional builders and persuasive salespeople.
Importance of Growth for Founders
Founders need to prioritize growth in order to thrive in the venture industry. While efficiency and cost-cutting measures are important, sustainable growth is crucial for venture success. The venture industry provided a temporary pass for slower growth during the pandemic, but now founders need to focus on regaining momentum.
Challenges of Valuing VC Books
Many venture firms face challenges with valuing their portfolios accurately. Highly priced deals and aggressive valuations made during the pandemic can cause complications. Venture capitalists need to be honest with LPs and consider potential markdowns. The relationship between LPs and VCs can be strained due to inaccurate valuations, changing managers, and communication gaps.
Jason Lemkin is the Founder @ SaaStr one of the best-performing early-stage venture funds focused on SaaS. In the past, Jason has led investments in Algolia, Pipedrive, Salesloft, TalkDesk, and RevenueCat to name a few. Prior to SaaStr, Jason was an entrepreneur, selling EchoSign to Adobe for $100M where it is now a $250M ARR product.
Rick Zullo is the Co-Founder and General Partner at Equal Ventures. Prior to co-founding Equal Ventures, Rick was an investor at Lightbank, Prior to Lightbank, Rick worked with investment firms Foundation Capital, Bowery Capital, and Lightview Capital.
In Today's Episode We Discuss:
1. Why Venture Capital Needs It's Jerry Maguire Moment:
Why does Rick believe that VC needs it's "Jerry Maguire" moment?
What needs to change? What needs to stay the same?
Why does Jason believe we will see even more mega funds in 2024 and 2025?
2. Unicorns are So 2019:
Why does Jason believe that "unicorn investing is mostly dead for bigger funds and none of them are looking for a $1BN outcome anymore?"
Why does Rick believe that multi-stage fund investing at seed simply does not make sense?
What does Rick believe many founders need to know when they take multi-stage money at seed?
Of the over 1,000 unicorns created over the last few years, how many of them do Rick and Jason feel are actually unicorns today?
3. Efficiency and Growth: We Need it All:
Why does Jason believe, as a founder you should be embarrassed if you ever had a RIF (reduction in force)?
Last year many founders got a pass on growth as they were more efficient. Is that pass over? Do they need to get back to growth?
What is the single biggest reason that companies do not scale from seed to Series A?
What happens to the many companies with years of runway but no product-market-fit?
Are we entering a new age of efficient company building or will we go back to high burn environments and excessive spending?
4. Entering the World of LPs:
If Jason and Rick were to advise LPs today on how much to discount the value of their venture books, what advice would they give?
How have markups completely corrupted the venture ecosystem?
How does LPs being incentivized by paper-marks make the industry even more screwed?
What are the single biggest misalignments between GP and LP?
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