Ep250: When Meditation Goes Wrong - Dr Willoughby Britton
Apr 19, 2024
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Dr Willoughby Britton, Associate Professor at Brown University, discusses her journey from a fascination with consciousness to studying meditation. She shares insights on the risks of dismantling one's sense of self, the overlaps between spiritual experiences and mental illness, the neurobiology of attention, and the hidden religious messaging in mindfulness techniques.
Dr. Britton's childhood curiosity in consciousness shaped her later work and exploration of meditation.
The intersection between mental health and spiritual experiences underscores the importance of understanding self-transformations through meditation practices.
Challenges and controversies surrounding meditation highlight the need for a nuanced approach and consideration of individual experiences.
Deep dives
Dr. Britain's Unusual Childhood and Early Interest in Consciousness
Growing up on a farm near Boston, Dr. Britain spent time in solitude, fostering a deep interest in consciousness from a young age. Her introspection led her to question existence and delve into philosophical inquiries about the self and consciousness, setting the stage for her later pursuits.
Impact of Friend's Suicide and Psychedelic Experience on Meditation Journey
After her friend's suicide in 1995, Dr. Britain turned to meditation, seeking solace amid various therapies. Her exploration also included experiences with psychedelics, where one profound instance in college led to a deep introspective journey. These events shaped her approach to meditation and influenced her perspectives on consciousness and self.
Navigating Overlaps Between Spiritual Experiences and Mental Health
Dr. Britain discusses the complexities of spiritual experiences and mental health, emphasizing the importance of understanding the diverse manifestations of the self. She highlights the nuanced changes in sense of self through meditation practice and the implications of these transformations. Acknowledging the variability in perspectives on enlightenment, she emphasizes the need to align personal goals with meditation practices to avoid potential conflicts.
Controversy in Meditation Practices
Meditation practices have been associated with controversy as different individuals perceive the techniques and their outcomes differently. The speaker highlights the ethical concerns of guided meditation that may influence personal experiences. By challenging the notion of meditation as a universally positive practice, the need for a comprehensive understanding of its effects emerges. The discussion delves into how varying perspectives and responses to meditation reveal a deep intersection between the medical and religious aspects of these contemplative practices.
Exploring Fear in Meditation
Fear plays a significant role in meditation practices, presenting both challenges and insights. The podcast examines how attentional training in meditation can lead to increased arousal levels and potentially induce fear responses. Contrary to common beliefs, fear in meditation can be viewed as a byproduct of heightened arousal states. The conversation also explores the diverse interpretations of fear across different Buddhist traditions, showcasing the complexity and variations in understanding within these contemplative practices.
In this interview I am joined by Dr Willoughby Britton, an Associate Professor at Brown University, the Director of Brown’s Clinical and Affective Neuroscience Laboratory, and founder of Cheetah House which provides support to those experiencing meditation-related difficulties.
Dr Britton recounts her unusual childhood interest in consciousness, why a friend’s suicide drove her to meditation, and how a psychedelic peak experience changed her view of the world.
Dr Britton considers the overlaps between spiritual experience and mental illness, why deconstructing the sense of self in search of enlightenment can lead to lasting psychological damage, and questions if experiences of fear are a necessary part of the meditative path.
Dr Britton also covers the neurobiology of attention, reveals the hidden religious messaging woven into mindfulness techniques such as Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction (MBSR), and shares how she deals with the negative responses from meditation enthusiasts towards her work.
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Video version: https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep250-when-meditation-goes-wrong-dr-willoughby-britton
Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.
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Topics include:
00:00 - Intro
01:15 - Dr Britton’s upbringing and early interest in consciousness
03:58 - Friend’s suicide and a life crisis
05:02 - Powerful high dose psychedelic experiences
08:46 - Influence of peak experiences
09:28 - Operative mechanism of Dr Britton’s epiphany
11:04 - Is redefinition of the self necessary for awakening?
11:50 - What is the ‘self’?
13:31 - A caveat
14:19 - Many possible modifications to the sense of self and identity
18:18 - What do Buddhists really mean when they talk about no-self?
19:01 - Surprising disagreement between Buddhist sects
19:48 - Lack on consensus about the end goal in Buddhism
20:47 - Awakening or mental illness?
24:01 - Cultural differences in what constitutes mental health
24:58 - Cultural influences and personal goals
26:39 - When meditation goes wrong
28:35 - When no-self experiences lead to negative outcomes
30:46 - The importance of connection
32:14 - Strategic ambiguity of enlightenment
34:34 - The enlightenment fantasy
35:23 - Absorbing a world view from meditation instructions
36:31 - How to assess your meditation practice
39:04 - Stealth Buddhism
40:31 - Hidden frames of meditation techniques
41:37 - Metaphysics of MBSR
45:18 - Market forces and religion as product
47:50 - Negative reactions to Dr Britton’s work
51:48 - Does Dr Britton’s work threaten meditators?
54:39 - Nasty emails and internet comments
56:08 - Is Dr Britton upset by the negativity?
57:31 - What is the goal of Dr Britton’s work?
59:51 - Why look for problems?
01:01:07 - How often do meditation related problems happen?
01:03:03 - Founding Cheetah House to help meditators in crisis
01:04:29 - Is fear necessary on the spiritual path?
01:06:20 - The neurobiology of attention
01:07:43 - Attention and arousal
0110:12 - The phenomenology and meaning of fear in Buddhist meditation
01:11:46 - Is fear part of the path?
01:13:10 - Buddhism doesn’t have its story straight
01:14:30 - The desire for a comprehensive world view
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To find out more about Dr Willoughby Britton, visit:
- https://www.cheetahhouse.org/
- https://www.brown.edu/public-health/mindfulness/people/willoughby-britton-phd
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For more interviews, videos, and more visit:
- www.guruviking.com
Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James
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