Defending Democracy with Malcolm Turnbull

Episode 2: Is there a 500-pound panda in the room?

Apr 2, 2025

Hugh White, an expert in strategic studies, Geoff Raby, a former ambassador to China, and Heather Smith, a veteran in national intelligence, delve into Australia's pressing security challenges. They critique historical foreign policy misjudgments and explore the nation's reliance on U.S. protection amidst rising Chinese influence. The discussion emphasizes the need for Australia to adopt a multifaceted strategy, engaging more deeply in multilateral relationships while balancing its own defense capabilities for regional stability.

01:24:19

Episode guests

Heather Smith

Geoff Raby

Hugh White

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Episode notes

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Australia must reassess its security strategy in light of diminishing U.S. dominance and the rise of China and Russia.

Chinese military assertiveness necessitates a nuanced understanding of Australia-China relations, balancing security threats with economic ties.

Australia's role as a middle power is crucial in promoting regional stability and fostering coalitions amid a fragmented global order.

Deep dives

Reassessing Strategic Assumptions

Australia's foreign and defense policy assumptions have long been based on the expectation of U.S. dominance in the global order. These assumptions include the belief that the U.S. will reliably act as Australia’s security guarantor and maintain military superiority, particularly in the Asia-Pacific region. However, the recent geopolitical shifts, notably the rising influence of China and the challenges posed by Russia, have revealed that these expectations are increasingly flawed. The United States is no longer positioned to deter all potential threats to its allies, prompting the need for Australia to rethink its security strategy without relying on U.S. primacy.

Intro

2min

Australia's Strategic Dilemmas: Navigating Global Threats

21min

Navigating Geopolitical Challenges for Australia

17min

Navigating China-Australia Relations

9min

Exploring Opportunities for Australia-Europe Multilateral Cooperation

2min

Navigating Australia's Foreign Policy Dilemma

12min

Exploring the Depth of the Five Eyes Intelligence Alliance

3min

Navigating Australia's Foreign Policy

4min

China's Influence in the Pacific: Navigating Geopolitical Challenges

14min

Recorded at Malcolm Turnbull’s Sovereignty and Security forum held in Canberra.

This panel discusses the nature of the security threats Australia faces, and reassesses the assumptions that have informed our economic, foreign and defence policies.

Panellists include: Professor Hugh White, Emeritus Professor of Strategic Studies at ANU, founding Director of ASPI, worked for several Labor Leaders, and served in the Defence Department; Dr Geoff Raby, Australia’s Ambassador to China from 2007-11, served as Ambassador to the WTO in Geneva, and Ambassador to APEC; Dr Heather Smith, Secretary and Deputy Secretary across a range of portfolios, including Deputy Director-General of the Office of National Intelligence, and co-led the 2024 Independent Review of Australia’s National Intelligence Community.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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