This conversation features Tim LeBon, a perfectionism therapist; Hannah Ritchie, a data researcher; Christian Ruhl, a grantmaker and stutterer; Will MacAskill, a moral philosopher; and Ajeya Cotra, a grant maker addressing research challenges. They discuss how moral perfectionism can harm self-identity, the toll of imposter syndrome in high-stakes environments, and the necessity of self-acceptance. They share personal struggles with guilt, anxiety, and the balance between making an impact while maintaining mental well-being. Their insights offer a roadmap for navigating emotional barriers in the pursuit of doing good.
01:47:10
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Moral Perfectionism
Moral perfectionism links identity to moral worth, setting impossibly high standards like maximizing good at all times.
This leads to procrastination, avoidance, harsh self-criticism, shame, and ultimately, self-hatred.
question_answer ANECDOTE
Howie's Mental Health Struggles
Howie struggles daily with mental illness, including low mood, guilt, imposter syndrome, and anxiety.
He experiences anxiety as a physical fight-or-flight response, coupled with negative self-talk.
insights INSIGHT
Evolutionary Perspective on Anxiety and Depression
Anxiety and depression are evolved responses to potential loss, not indicators of a flawed system.
They're useful in situations where preventive action can avoid future loss.
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The book is divided into two parts. The first part recounts Frankl's harrowing experiences as a prisoner in Nazi concentration camps, including Auschwitz, between 1942 and 1945. He describes the inhumane conditions and the psychological and emotional struggles of the prisoners. The second part introduces Frankl's theory of logotherapy, which posits that the primary human drive is the search for meaning, rather than pleasure. Frankl argues that meaning can be found through three main avenues: work (doing something significant), love (caring for another), and suffering (finding meaning in one's own suffering). The book emphasizes the importance of finding purpose and meaning in life, even in the most adverse conditions, as a key factor in survival and personal growth.
Shop class as soulcraft
an inquiry into the value of work
Matthew Crawford
Matthew B. Crawford
In 'Shop Class as Soulcraft,' Matthew B. Crawford argues that the manual trades offer a unique form of intellectual and personal satisfaction. He critiques modern society's emphasis on 'knowledge work' and the devaluation of manual labor, highlighting the cognitive demands and personal fulfillment that come from working with one's hands. Crawford draws on his own experiences as a motorcycle mechanic and philosopher to illustrate the importance of craftsmanship, self-reliance, and the integration of thinking and doing in meaningful work. The book challenges consumerist culture and advocates for a more humane economy that values and rewards meaningful labor[1][3][4].
"We are aiming for a place where we can decouple the scorecard from our worthiness. It’s of course the case that in trying to optimise the good, we will always be falling short. The question is how much, and in what ways are we not there yet? And if we then extrapolate that to how much and in what ways am I not enough, that’s where we run into trouble." —Hannah Boettcher
What happens when your desire to do good starts to undermine your own wellbeing?
Over the years, we’ve heard from therapists, charity directors, researchers, psychologists, and career advisors — all wrestling with how to do good without falling apart. Today’s episode brings together insights from 16 past guests on the emotional and psychological costs of pursuing a high-impact career to improve the world — and how to best navigate the all-too-common guilt, burnout, perfectionism, and imposter syndrome along the way.
Mental Health Navigator is a service that simplifies finding and accessing mental health information and resources all over the world — built specifically for the effective altruism community
80,000 Hours’ former CEO Howie on what his anxiety and self-doubt feels like (00:03:47)
Evolutionary psychiatrist Randy Nesse on what emotions are for (00:07:35)
Therapist Hannah Boettcher on how striving for impact can affect our self-worth (00:13:45)
Luisa Rodriguez on grieving the gap between who you are and who you wish you were (00:16:57)
Charity director Cameron Meyer Shorb on managing work-related guilt and shame (00:24:01)
Therapist Tim LeBon on aiming for excellence rather than perfection (00:29:18)
Author Cal Newport on making time to be alone with our thoughts (00:36:03)
80,000 Hours career advisors Michelle Hutchinson and Habiba Islam on prioritising mental health over career impact (00:40:28)
Charity founder Sarah Eustis-Guthrie on the ups and downs of founding an organisation (00:45:52)
Our World in Data researcher Hannah Ritchie on feeling like an imposter as a generalist (00:51:28)
Moral philosopher Will MacAskill on being proactive about mental health and preventing burnout (01:00:46)
Grantmaker Ajeya Cotra on the psychological toll of big open-ended research questions (01:11:00)
Researcher and grantmaker Christian Ruhl on how having a stutter affects him personally and professionally (01:19:30)
Mercy For Animals’ CEO Leah Garcés on insisting on self-care when doing difficult work (01:32:39)
80,000 Hours’ former CEO Howie on balancing a job and mental illness (01:37:12)
Therapist Hannah Boettcher on how self-compassion isn’t self-indulgence (01:40:39)
Journalist Kelsey Piper on communicating about mental health in ways that resonate (01:43:32)
Luisa's outro (01:46:10)
Audio engineering: Ben Cordell, Milo McGuire, Simon Monsour, and Dominic Armstrong Content editing: Katy Moore and Milo McGuire Transcriptions and web: Katy Moore
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