Michael S. Schmidt, an investigative reporter for The New York Times, delves into the implications of a potential second Trump presidency. The discussion highlights Trump's history of seeking revenge against political foes and how this approach could reshape federal agencies. Schmidt reveals the chilling use of governmental power for personal vendettas and the concerning threat to democratic norms. Listeners gain insights into retaliation against rivals like John Kerry, and the unsettling reality of what a vindictive political culture could mean for the future.
The podcast highlights the significant risk of a second Trump presidency morphing into an authoritarian regime driven by personal vendettas.
It underscores the damaging psychological effects of political weaponization, creating a culture of fear that undermines public trust in democratic institutions.
Deep dives
The Threat of Authoritarianism
The discussion highlights the potential dangers of a president using government powers to seek revenge against perceived enemies, suggesting that this behavior could lead the nation toward authoritarianism. When governmental powers are wielded based on the whims of a politician rather than the rule of law, it creates an environment where democratic behavior is chilled. The use of retribution becomes a primary tool for governance, altering the dynamics between the government and its citizens. This scenario raises critical questions about the integrity of democratic institutions and whether they can withstand such abuses of power.
Retribution in the First Trump Presidency
The episode explores how the first Trump presidency was marked by a series of retaliatory actions against political opponents, with Trump often expressing a desire to pursue investigations into figures like Hillary Clinton and James Comey. A clear contrast is drawn between initial intentions to unify and the aggressive pursuit of investigations, as Trump’s administration faced its own scrutiny related to Russia. The narrative illustrates how Trump’s frustrations with these investigations prompted him to retaliate by seeking to weaponize the government against those he saw as enemies. This pattern of behavior became routine, showcasing a willingness to misuse governmental resources for personal grudges.
The Mechanisms of Control
The podcast delves into Trump's interactions with high-ranking officials, such as John Kelly and Don McGahn, showcasing attempts to manipulate Justice Department investigations to his advantage. McGahn's cautionary memos attempted to steer Trump away from direct involvement with the Department of Justice, emphasizing long-held norms against interference. However, the environment of intimidation led to a culture where loyalty overshadowed legal integrity, prompting subordinates to act on Trump’s wishes. This subtext reveals how the pressures of allegiance can compromise the ethical standards of governmental operations.
Implications of Political Weaponization
The consequences of Trump's first-term actions highlighted a worrying trend of political weaponization, where officials were drawn into partisan battles through investigations against figures like John Bolton and John Kerry. Even when investigations did not yield criminal charges, the psychological toll on the subjects was immense, reflecting the real harm caused by mere investigations. The episode shows how the message of retribution impacts not just high-profile individuals but also everyday citizens and political actors fearful of speaking out. Ultimately, this creates a climate of fear and uncertainty, diminishing public trust in governmental institutions and the rule of law.
In a special series, “The Daily” examines what a second Trump presidency would look like, and how it would challenge democratic norms.
This episode focuses on former President Donald J. Trump’s growing plans for revenge, which his allies and supporters often dismiss as mere bluster.
Michael S. Schmidt, an investigative reporter at The New York Times, found that when Mr. Trump asked for retribution in his first term, he got it, over and over again.
Guest: Michael S. Schmidt, an investigative reporter for The New York Times, covering Washington.
Background reading:
Here are cases of Trump rivals who were subject to investigation.
For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.
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