David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founder of Basecamp, discusses topics such as Basecamp's Twitter blowup, the shift from public to private discourse, his evolving stance on Bitcoin due to a lean towards authoritarianism in Canada, and the importance of keeping politics out of the workplace. Tony Tran, CEO of Lumanu, also shares insights on empowering creators in the solopreneur community and the value of networking for creators.
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Quick takeaways
COVID response: Denmark's data-driven decision-making and balancing consequences of lockdown
Negative effects of Twitter on public discourse: anger, divisiveness, and algorithmic programming
Challenges of navigating controversial topics in the workplace: Basecamp's policy impact
Change in perspective towards cryptocurrency: witnessing authoritarian overreach in the Canadian trucker protest
Lumanu's role in supporting creators in the gig economy and the shift towards private discussions
Deep dives
Government's reaction to COVID and the Danish example
The podcast episode discusses the different approaches taken by governments in response to COVID, particularly focusing on the Danish example. In Denmark, they had a sophisticated testing operation that helped them identify the Omicron variant early on. They made data-driven decisions and decided to open up the country when they realized the lower mortality rate and the need to balance the consequences of prolonged lockdown. The podcast also highlights the importance of separating the principle of the response from personal opinions about the protesters.
The downside of social media and its impact on debate
The podcast delves into the negative effects of social media, particularly Twitter, on public discourse and debate. It discusses how Twitter has become a platform for anger, bitterness, and divisiveness, with the most extreme and divisive views being rewarded. The guests share their personal experiences with Twitter feuds and how they made a conscious decision to change their approach. They also highlight the need for more nuanced discussions and the dangers of people being programmed by social media algorithms to become the worst versions of themselves.
The challenges faced by companies in navigating controversial topics
The podcast explores the challenges faced by companies in navigating controversial topics in the workplace. It discusses the example of Basecamp, where the company implemented a policy of not discussing political or social issues at work. This decision received backlash and led to a significant number of employees leaving the company. However, it also enabled Basecamp to reevaluate its direction and make changes that ultimately led to a higher functioning and more focused company.
The realization and change in perspective towards cryptocurrency
The podcast episode discusses the guest's change in perspective towards cryptocurrency, particularly Bitcoin. The turning point for the guest was witnessing the Canadian trucker protest and the subsequent government response, which involved freezing bank accounts without due process. This authoritarian overreach made the guest see the value and potential of cryptocurrency as a way to route around such control and censorship. The guest acknowledges their previous negative stance on Bitcoin and highlights the importance of distinguishing the merits of the technology from personal opinions about certain individuals or groups.
Luma: Empowering Creators in the Digital Age
Luma is a company that helps creators manage their invoicing, payments, collaborations, and more. It aims to empower creators to thrive on their own terms in the booming creator economy, where 86% of young people want to monetize their social media presence. Luma provides a one-stop-shop platform for creators to run their businesses efficiently, with features like built-in payments and banking. By working with top brands and creators, Luma facilitates partnerships that allow diverse voices and experiences to reach customers authentically. Luma's acquisition model involves onboarding creators from the brands it works with and building a strong creator community through marketing, referrals, and organic growth.
The Gen Z Ethos: Unedited and Relatable
When it comes to Gen Z creators, there is a noticeable difference in their approach compared to older millennial creators. Gen Z values authenticity and rawness in their content, and brands have recognized the importance of letting creators be themselves. Rather than giving them scripts, brands allow creators to deliver honest and genuine reactions to their products or services. This shift represents a departure from the traditional polished and filtered content of the past, as Gen Z creators embrace a more unedited perception. Brands find value in collaborating with Gen Z creators who can connect with customers on a relatable and diverse level.
Luma's Role in the Creator Economy
Luma plays a vital role in supporting creators in the growing gig economy, where freelancing and content creation have become attractive alternatives to traditional employment. Luma provides creators with the tools to manage their businesses effectively, helping them with invoicing, payments, and partnerships. By offering a platform free of charge for creators, Luma democratizes access to essential business services. Creators can leverage Luma's features for content creation, such as FAQs or product reviews, expanding their revenue streams beyond social media ads. Additionally, Luma's early pay feature allows creators to receive their earnings upfront, offering financial flexibility and stability.
The Shift to Private Chats and Alternative Platforms
The podcast episode discusses the growing trend of creators and individuals moving away from public platforms like Twitter and towards private chats and alternative platforms for more meaningful and constructive discussions. The speaker highlights the addictive and dominant nature of platforms like Twitter and expresses concern over its role in shaping American politics. The off-ramp from these platforms is seen as a conscious choice to put attention elsewhere, engaging in private chats, podcasts, and meaningful conversations that promote learning and exchange of ideas. The importance of reestablishing the culture of civil discourse and intellectual exploration, reminiscent of the 90s and 2000s, is emphasized.
The Need for Critical Debates and Dissent
The podcast episode emphasizes the importance of critical debates, dissent, and diverse perspectives in advancing knowledge and finding novel solutions. There is a concern that current debates have become explosive and consequences for having differing views are becoming too high. The speaker argues for the necessity of turning over rocks and exploring new ideas, even if it means making mistakes along the way. Suppressing dissent stifles scientific progress and hinders the collective understanding of complex issues. The resilience of bitcoin and the science process serve as examples of the importance of embracing dissent and allowing for alternative viewpoints to contribute to societal advancement.
Jason chats with David Heinemeier Hansson (2:03) about global governments reacting to COVID, Basecamp’s Twitter cycle blowup last spring when more than 1/3 of the company left, the shift from debating in the public square (Twitter) to debating in private with friends on group chats. We also talk about why David now sees a case for Bitcoin after Canada leans toward authoritarianism.
(00:00) Jason and Molly intro today’s episode, David Heinemeier Hansson, OK Boomer with Tony Tran of Lumanu
(02:03) Jason catches up with David Heinemeier Hansson
(07:05) DHH on Living in Denmark during COVID
(10:31) Ourcrowd - Check out the deal of the week at https://ourcrowd.com/twist
(11:41) Social media: a weapon of mass disfunction
(20:08) Eight Sleep - Go to https://eightsleep.com/twist to check out the Pod Pro Cover and get $150 off at checkout!
(21:40) DHH on keeping politics out of the workplace and offering severance for company culture unity
(31:14) Marlow - Get 15% off your individual or team memberships at https://getmarlow.com/twist
(32:41) Jason and DHH on the joys of working at home
(39:41) Jason and DHH discuss the downsides of social media
(46:50) Why DHH changed his position on cryptocurrency and the Canadian trucker protests
(01:34:15) Jason, Molly, and Rachel intro this week’s OK Boomer
(01:36:02) Rachel speaks with Tony Tran, CEO of Lumanu
