COMPLEXITY
Complex Conceptions of Time with David Krakauer, Ted Chiang, David Wolpert, & James Gleick
Episode guests
Podcast summary created with Snipd AI
Quick takeaways
- Time can be thought of as a quantity with various metaphors, and the historical use of prophecy stories as narratives about information moving backward in time.
- Science fiction influences how we track, measure, and speak about time, highlighting the tension between narrative and geometric representations of time.
- Time travel narratives in literature have evolved from deterministic classical stories to ones where characters can change the course of events, reflecting the conflict between a block universe and human agency.
Deep dives
Time as a Quantity with Metaphors
The podcast explores how time can be thought of as a quantity, often described with metaphors such as a river, thread, or ladder. It delves into the historical use of prophecy stories as narratives about information moving backward in time. The discussion highlights the distinction between classical and relativistic depictions of time, including the block universe concept where past, present, and future coexist. The panelists also touch on the role of memory and the predictability of the future.
Exploring Concepts of Time in Science Fiction
The podcast delves into the influence of science fiction on how we track, measure, and speak about time. It examines different metaphors used to represent time in both storytelling and complex systems science. The panelists discuss the tension between the narrative perspective of time and the geometric representation seen in Minkowski's space-time. They touch on the idea of closed time-like curves and their implications for free will, determinism, and the possibility of time travel.
Narratives of Time Travel and Predictability
The panelists discuss the evolution of time travel narratives in literature and its connection to the belief in free will. They explore the shift from classical prophecy stories where actions taken to avert the future still bring about the prophecy, to modern time travel stories where characters can change the course of events. The concept of a block universe is touched upon, emphasizing the conflict between the deterministic nature of time and the human desire for agency and the ability to alter the past.
The Relationship Between Time and Information
The podcast examines the relationship between time and information, highlighting the significance of memory, prediction, and entropy. The panelists explore how subjective experiences of time, novelty, and free will interact with physical descriptions of time. They discuss questions of determinism, the role of entropy in breaking the symmetry of time, and the implications for our understanding of the universe and our place in it.
Physics, Time Travel, and the Block Universe
The podcast delves into the block universe concept and its implications for our understanding of time travel, free will, and novelty. The panelists address criticisms and explore the distinction between subjective and physical descriptions of time. They touch on the role of entropy and discuss different narrative tropes in time travel stories, including the idea of doubling up and inhabiting one's own body in another time. They also examine the contradictions and paradoxes that emerge when considering concepts like closed time-like curves.
And now for something completely different! Last October, The Santa Fe Institute held its third InterPlanetary Festival at SITE Santa Fe, celebrating the immensely long time horizon, deep scientific and philosophical questions, psychological challenges, and engineering problems involved in humankind’s Great Work to extend its understanding and presence into outer space. For our third edition, we turned our attention to visionary projects living generations will likely not live to see completed — interstellar travel, off-world cities, radical new ways of understanding spacetime — as an invitation to engage in science as not merely interesting but deeply fun. For our first panel, we decided to inquire: What is time, really? How has science fiction changed the way we track and measure, speak about, and live in time? And how do physics and complex systems science pose and answer these most fundamental questions?
Welcome to COMPLEXITY, the official podcast of the Santa Fe Institute. I’m your host, Michael Garfield, and every other week we’ll bring you with us for far-ranging conversations with our worldwide network of rigorous researchers developing new frameworks to explain the deepest mysteries of the universe.
In this week’s episode, we share the Complex Conceptions of Time panel from InterPlanetary Festival 2022, moderated by SFI President David Krakauer and featuring an all-star trinity of panelists: science journalist James Gleick, sci-fi author and SFI Miller Scholar Ted Chiang, and physicist and SFI Professor David Wolpert. In this hour, we play with and dissect some favorite metaphors for time, unroll the history of time’s mathematization, review time travel in science fiction, and examine the arguments between free will and determinism.
Be sure to check out our extensive show notes with links to all our references at complexity.simplecast.com — as well as the extensive, interactive web-based “Voyager Golden Record Liner Notes” with links to not only all of the panels from IPFest 2022 but also copious additional resources, including contributor bios, peer-reviewed publications, science fiction and nonfiction science writing, and more…
If you value our research and communication efforts, please subscribe, rate and review us at Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and consider making a donation — or finding other ways to engage with us — at santafe.edu/engage.
If you’d like some HD virtual backgrounds of the SFI campus to use on video calls and a chance to win a signed copy of one of our books from the SFI Press, help us improve our science communication by completing a survey about our various scicomm channels. Thanks for your time!
Lastly, we have a bevy of summer programs coming up! Join us June 19-23 for Collective Intelligence: Foundations + Radical Ideas, a first-ever event open to both academics and professionals, with sessions on adaptive matter, animal groups, brains, AI, teams, and more. Space is limited! The application deadline has been extended to March 1st.
OR apply to the Graduate Workshop on Complexity in Social Science.
OR the Complexity GAINS UK program for PhD students.
(OR check our open listings for a staff or research job!)
Join our Facebook discussion group to meet like minds and talk about each episode.
Podcast theme music by Mitch Mignano.
Episode cover art by Michael Garfield with the help of Midjourney.
Follow us on social media:
Twitter • YouTube • Facebook • Instagram • LinkedIn
(SOME) Mentioned & Related Links:
David Krakauer
Mathematical languages shape our understanding of time in physics
by Nicolas Gisin
Does Time Really Flow? New Clues Come From a Century-Old Approach to Math
by Natalie Wolchover
The Principle of Least Action
Path Integral Formulation
Closed Timelike Curve
The Time Machine
by H. G. Wells
Kip Thorne
James Gleick
Genius: The Life and Science of Richard Feynman
The Physicist and The Philosopher
by Jimena Canales
Ted Chiang
“Story of Your Life”
Arrival
Exhalation
Russian Doll (TV series)
“The Merchant and the Alchemist's Gate”
David Wolpert
Complexity 94 - David Wolpert & Farita Tasnim on The Thermodynamics of Communication
Complexity 45 - David Wolpert on The No Free Lunch Theorems and Why They Undermine The Scientific Method
A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court by Mark Twain
Intuitionist Mathematics
Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts
