The Gist Escaping the Nazis. Then Going Back
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Jun 30, 2025 
Daniel Kehlmann, a German-Austrian novelist, delves into his novel 'The Director,' exploring the complex moral landscape facing artists under oppressive regimes. He reflects on G.W. Pabst's controversial return to Nazi Germany and the human costs of artistic creation. Ben Wittes, a legal expert, discusses the convoluted logic of international law in warfare, including the legality and ethical implications of drone strikes in asymmetric conflicts. The conversation challenges listeners to think critically about art, ethics, and the laws governing modern warfare.
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Pabst's Return to Nazi Austria
- G.W. Pabst fled Nazi Germany to Hollywood but struggled due to language and artistic restrictions.
- He returned to Nazi-occupied Austria to care for his ailing mother despite the danger.
Artistic Freedom Under Nazis
- Pabst surprisingly had more artistic freedom in Nazi Germany than in Hollywood.
- This created a tragic irony, making his return artistically rewarding but morally complex.
Art Versus Moral Compromise
- Totalitarian regimes force daily moral compromises on artists and citizens alike.
- Great art can emerge from terrible circumstances but does not justify the moral cost.
