What truly is the relationship between tech giants and government, especially with the recent change of administrations? How does democracy remain at the forefront when corporations are amassing so much capital and power? How can the US hope to balance out the influence of Big Tech money with the needs of a population that will often have different needs and goals?

Marietje Schaake is a fellow at the Cyber Policy Center and a fellow at the Institute for Human Centered AI, both at Stanford University, and the author of the book The Tech Coup: How to Save Democracy from Silicon Valley.

Greg and Marietje discuss the evolving and complex role of technology corporations in modern society, particularly in democratic contexts. Their conversation covers a range of topics from historical perspectives on corporate power, modern regulatory challenges, national security concerns, and the influence of tech companies on public policy and democracy. Marietje gives her insights on how the lack of deliberate governance has allowed tech companies to gain unprecedented power, and she makes the case for regulatory reforms and enhanced accountability for these companies.

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Show Links:

Recommended Resources:

• Jeff Bezos
• Tim Cook
• Sundar Pichai
• Sergey Brin
• Elon Musk
• Tim Berners-Lee
• Vint Cerf
• Marc Andreessen
• General Data Protection Regulation
• Palantir Technologies
• Pegasus Project
• Section 230

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at Stanford University
• Profile for European Parliament
• Eurasia Group Profile
• Wikipedia Profile
• LinkedIn Profile
• Social Profile on X

Her Work:

• The Tech Coup: How to Save Democracy from Silicon Valley

Episode Quotes:

The relentless race for tech dominance without guardrails

13:55: There has been too little ownership on the part of corporate leaders of the great responsibilities that having so much power should mean, and they are also given a lot of space that they've taken. So, essentially, because there are too few guardrails, they're just going to continue to race ahead until something stops them. And the very political leaders that can typically wield quite a bit of power to put up guardrails, rules, oversight, and checks and balances, in the person of Donald Trump, are not going to do so, or at least not from a comprehensive democratic vision that I think is necessary if you put democracy first in assessing what role technology should play in our societies.

Tech's unavoidable role in our lives

03:13: It's hard to imagine any aspect of our lives—whether it's our kids, the elderly, or everyone in between—where tech company platforms and devices don't play a critical role. And that sort of interwovenness, not so much as a sector or as one company, but as a layer that impacts almost all aspects of our lives, makes this a different animal.

Regulation's biggest fans should be its biggest critics

31:02: Between the critics and the fans, I always say that the EU's biggest fans should be regulation's biggest critics because actually, we need to be honest about what it is and what it isn't. And I think one of the problems is that a lot of the regulation that has been adopted in the EU has been oversold—GDPR being a key example. At some point, the answer to every question about technology in Europe was, "But we have GDPR now." With a few years of hindsight, we can see that enforcement of GDPR was really imperfect. The fact that there was such a singular focus on the right to privacy, which is very important and understandably so from historic perspectives in Europe as well. We also needed to harmonize rules between all the different countries, so there was a lot of logic in there that doesn't translate to what it means for Silicon Valley because, in fact, that was not the most important driver.