Behavioral Grooves Podcast
Can You Unlearn History And Still Love Your Country? With Dolly Chugh
Episode guests
Podcast summary created with Snipd AI
Quick takeaways
- Belief grief is the emotional experience of realizing that deeply held narratives about our past are untrue or incomplete, and by naming and normalizing this grief, we can work through it and come to terms with the complexities of history.
- Emotionally prepare for discomfort and uncertainties when delving into historical truths, just as we prepare for inclement weather with appropriate clothing.
- Embrace paradoxes and acknowledge contradictions to develop a more nuanced understanding of history and move towards a more just future.
Deep dives
Belief Grief: Facing the Truth about our Past
Dolly Chugh introduces the concept of belief grief, which refers to the emotional experience of realizing that deeply held narratives about our past are untrue or incomplete. By naming and normalizing this grief, we can work through it and come to terms with the complexities of history.
Dressing for the Weather: Navigating Uncomfortable Truths
Chugh emphasizes the importance of dressing for the weather when exploring our past, acknowledging that it can be uncomfortable and challenging. Just as we prepare for inclement weather with appropriate clothing, we should emotionally prepare for discomfort and uncertainties when delving into historical truths.
The Paradox Mindset: Embracing Contradictions
Chugh discusses the power of embracing paradoxes, recognizing that individuals and events can possess both positive and negative aspects. By acknowledging and accepting contradictions, we can develop a more nuanced understanding of history and move towards a more just future.
Psychological Distance and the 'Long Time Ago' Illusion
Addressing the phenomenon of psychological distance, Chugh highlights how our perception of the past can be distorted, making events seem further away and blurrier than they actually are. This illusion can hinder our ability to fully grasp the impact of historical events and their relevance to the present.
The Importance of Unlearning and Gritty Patriotism
Chugh emphasizes the importance of unlearning ingrained beliefs and embracing a paradox mindset when it comes to our country's history. She discusses the concept of gritty patriotism, which involves actively loving our country while acknowledging and reckoning with its past mistakes and inequalities.
Learning ALL the parts of our country’s history can be very uncomfortable. Not just in the US, but around the world, there are usually very dark parts of our past that many of us would rather brush over because it doesn’t marry up with the sterilized version of what we were taught when we were younger.
While many of us are willing to take the next step, to unlearn our history and dismantle the unjust systems that our forebears built, few of us actually know how to go about it effectively. Our wonderful guest on this episode, Dolly Chugh admits to her own story of how she inadvertently taught her kids a polished version of history. And in her own personal reckoning around this experience, wrote the book that she found herself needing to read. And we are delighted to be talking with her about “A More Just Future: Psychological Tools for Reckoning with Our Past and Driving Social Change” because it is now a valuable tool for all of us.
Dolly Chugh is a Harvard educated, award-winning social psychologist at the NYU Stern School of Business, where she is an expert researcher in the psychology of good people. We’ve previously had Dolly on the show but we are thrilled to welcome her back to discuss her brand new book.
Topics
(2:07) How Little House On The Prairie led Dolly to write A More Just Future.
(9:24) Behavioral History - the new way of looking at the past?
(11:10) Why do we find it so difficult to talk about the dark parts of our history?
(14:08) How “dressing for the weather” can help us deal with our emotional responses.
(17:56) What other countries can teach the US about our response to history..
(19:37) How a Paradox Mindset can help us sit with uncomfortable truths.
(23:28) How does Dolly feel about America after writing the book?
(26:12) How do we move forward to a more just future?
(29:28) Unlearning our past is simple but not easy.
(31:49) Why is George Takei a gritty patriot?
(37:51) What is belief grief?
(39:42) How psychological distance creates a “long time ago illusion”.
(41:37) Using music to anchor us in time.
(44:52) What question Dolly would ask Max Bazerman?
(47:54) Grooving Session with Tim and Kurt discussing A More Just Future.
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© 2022 Behavioral Grooves
LinksDolly’s book “A More Just Future: Psychological Tools for Reckoning with Our Past and Driving Social Change “: https://amzn.to/3Cgs9eq
Episode 230, How Good People Fight Bias with Dolly Chugh: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-good-people-fight-bias/
Dolly’s TED Talk: “How to let go of being a "good" person — and become a better person”: https://www.ted.com/talks/dolly_chugh_how_to_let_go_of_being_a_good_person_and_become_a_better_person?language=en
Episode 280, Do We Judge Others By The Way They Speak? | Katherine Kinzler PhD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/judging-by-the-way-others-speak/
Historiography: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiography
Dan Gilbert “Stumbling on Happiness”: https://amzn.to/3zdV4iD
Episode 321, Robert Livingston: How To Have A Conversation About Racism: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/a-conversation-about-racism/
Angela Duckworth “Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance”: https://amzn.to/3suuRZh
“Construal-Level Theory of Psychological Distance” Yaacov Trope and Nira Liberman (2011): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3152826/
Max Bazerman “Complicit: How We Enable the Unethical and How to Stop”: https://amzn.to/3TSE7lB
Episode 232: Katy Milkman: How to Make Healthy Habits that Actually Last: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/katy-milkman-habits-that-last/
Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves
Musical Links
Bob Marley “Buffalo Soldier”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5FCdx7Dn0o
Hamilton “Alexander Hamilton”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhinPd5RRJw
In the Heights “No Me Diga”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrFH772ytzM
Louis Armstrong “Hello Dolly”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7N2wssse14
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