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The creator of WordPress opens up about becoming an internet villain, why he’s taking a stand, and the future of open source | Matt Mullenweg (founder and CEO, Automattic)

Mar 2, 2025

In this engaging discussion, Matt Mullenweg, co-founder of WordPress and CEO of Automattic, dives into the controversial world of open-source technology. He reveals his thoughts on public criticism and the challenges of maintaining a thriving community. Mullenweg candidly addresses the differences between true and ‘fake’ open source projects, while sharing his inspiring journey behind transforming Tumblr. He emphasizes the importance of creativity in public art through the Bay Lights project and advocates for transparency in tech, particularly regarding community issues.

01:34:26

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Matt Mullenweg

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Quick takeaways

Matt Mullenweg highlights the vital importance of protecting open source ideals amid rising public criticism and negativity in the community.

He addresses the challenges posed by WP Engine misusing WordPress's trademark, emphasizing the need for brand integrity and user satisfaction.

Mullenweg underscores the interplay of AI and open source, warning against companies' misleading claims of being open while imposing restrictions.

His acquisition of Tumblr aims to revitalize the platform by integrating it with WordPress functionalities while respecting its user base.

Deep dives

Matt Mullenweg and His Open Source Journey

Matt Mullenweg, co-creator of WordPress, emphasizes the significance of protecting open source ideals and standing up against negativity in the community. Over the years, he has transitioned from being a beloved figure in the open source world to facing backlash and criticism, with a notable increase in detractors. His focus on advocating for open source principles has shaped his perspective, revealing that he feels responsible for ensuring that the foundational values behind WordPress remain intact. Through this journey, Mullenweg reflects on the challenges and rewards of fostering an open source community.

Intro

5min

The Evolution of WordPress and Automattic

6min

The Bay Lights Journey

22min

Navigating Maintenance and Community in Tech

13min

Navigating Controversy in the WordPress Community

3min

Challenges and Changes in the WordPress Community

19min

The Complexity of Forking Plugins in WordPress

2min

Navigating WordPress Ownership and Community Challenges

21min

Traveling Light: Optimizing Utility in a Gadget-Filled Life

2min

Matt Mullenweg is the co-founder of WordPress, the open source platform powering a staggering 43% of the internet. He also serves as CEO of Automattic—the parent company of brands like WordPress.com, WooCommerce, and Tumblr—which is worth over $7 billion, with over 1,700 employees across 90 countries. In this episode, he discusses some of the most controversial topics surrounding WordPress, Automattic, and the broader open source community.

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What you’ll learn:

• Matt’s response to public criticism

• Why products like Meta’s Llama are “fake open source”

• How his team is turning around Tumblr after acquiring it for just $3 million (after Yahoo bought it for $1.1 billion)

• Why he mortgaged his home to fund San Francisco’s iconic Bay Lights project

• Matt’s philosophy: “Don’t just build a product; build a movement”

• Why open source matters: “If the Founding Fathers were around today, they’d be open source advocates”

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-creator-of-wordpress-opens-up-matt-mullenweg

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Where to find Matt Mullenweg:

• X: https://x.com/photomatt

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattm/

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/photomatt/

• Website: https://ma.tt/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Matt Mullenweg

(05:10) Matt’s career journey

(11:15) Bay Lights project and philanthropy

(17:28) How Matt got involved with open source

(23:25) Why products like Meta’s Llama are “fake open source”

(27:14) The future of open source and how to get involved

(35:25) Building a successful online community

(39:12) The WP Engine controversy

(50:24) Facing criticism and controversy

(55:29) Addressing community concerns

(01:08:29) Forking Advanced Custom Fields

(01:11:15) The role of social media and public perception

(01:16:43) Acquiring and reviving Tumblr

(01:24:25) Automattic’s acquisition strategy

(01:28:51) Final thoughts and future plans

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Referenced:

• WordPress: https://wordpress.com/

• Automattic: https://automattic.com/

• CNET: https://www.cnet.com/

• Akismet: https://akismet.com/wordpress/

• Jetpack: https://jetpack.com/

• Toni Schneider on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonischneider/

• WooCommerce: https://woocommerce.com/

• Beeper: https://www.beeper.com/

• Day One: https://dayoneapp.com/

• Simplenote: https://simplenote.com/

• Pocket Casts: https://pocketcasts.com/

• Creative Commons: https://creativecommons.org/

• Audrey Capital: https://audrey.co/

• Stripe: https://stripe.com/

• SpaceX: https://www.spacex.com/

• Calm: https://www.calm.com/

• August: https://august.com/

• Daylight Computer: https://daylightcomputer.com/

• Keys Jazz Bistro: https://keysjazzbistro.com/

• Joomla: https://www.joomla.org/

• Drupal: https://new.drupal.org/

• Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/

• Wix: https://www.wix.com/

• Squarespace: https://www.squarespace.com/

• Tumblr: https://www.tumblr.com/

• Gravatar: https://gravatar.com/

• The Bay Lights: https://illuminate.org/projects/thebaylights/

• The Bay Lights 360: https://illuminate.org/the-bay-lights-360/

• Ben Davis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-davis-sf/

• Kinder High School for the Performing and Visual Arts: https://www.houstonisd.org/hspva

• Jack Dorsey: We’re Losing our Free Will to Algorithms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_8NganZSFI

• Marc Andreessen: https://a16z.com/author/marc-andreessen/

• Bill Gurley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billgurley/

• An inside look at X’s Community Notes | Keith Coleman (VP of Product) and Jay Baxter (ML Lead): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-x-built-the-best-fact-checking-system-on-the-internet

• Llama: https://www.llama.com/

• WordCamp US & Ecosystem Thinking: https://ma.tt/2024/09/ecosystem-thinking/

• As Wall Street Chases Profits, Fire Departments Have Paid the Price: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/17/us/fire-engines-shortage-private-equity.html

• WordCamp Asia: https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/

• Justin Baldoni Hit with Defamation Suit as PR Teams Turn on Each Other over Blake Lively’s ‘It Ends with Us’ Smear Campaign Allegations: https://deadline.com/2024/12/justin-baldoni-defamation-lawsuit-publicist-blake-lively-1236241784/

• How WordPress Hot Nacho Scandal Shapes WP Engine Dispute: https://www.searchenginejournal.com/how-wordpress-hot-nacho-scandal-shapes-wp-engine-dispute/539069/

• Gutenberg: https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/

• ClassicPress: https://www.classicpress.net/

• Behind the founder: Marc Benioff: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-founder-marc-benioff

• Mary Hubbard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryfhubbard/

• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach

• Founder mode: https://paulgraham.com/foundermode.html

• Cow.com: https://www.cow.com/

• David Karp on X: https://x.com/davidkarp

• Marissa Mayer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marissamayer/

• Alibaba: https://www.alibaba.com/

• WP Engine Tracker: https://wordpressenginetracker.com/