The creator of WordPress opens up about becoming an internet villain, why he’s taking a stand, and the future of open source | Matt Mullenweg (founder and CEO, Automattic)

Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

notes

CHAPTER

The Complexity of Forking Plugins in WordPress

This chapter explores the intricate forking of the Advanced Custom Fields plugin, focusing on legal disputes and security concerns. It also discusses the emergence of Secure Custom Fields, a new plugin developed to enhance user safety and innovation within the WordPress community.

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Transcript

Episode notes

Matt Mullenweg is the co-founder of WordPress, the open source platform powering a staggering 43% of the internet. He also serves as CEO of Automattic—the parent company of brands like WordPress.com, WooCommerce, and Tumblr—which is worth over $7 billion, with over 1,700 employees across 90 countries. In this episode, he discusses some of the most controversial topics surrounding WordPress, Automattic, and the broader open source community.

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What you’ll learn:

• Matt’s response to public criticism

• Why products like Meta’s Llama are “fake open source”

• How his team is turning around Tumblr after acquiring it for just $3 million (after Yahoo bought it for $1.1 billion)

• Why he mortgaged his home to fund San Francisco’s iconic Bay Lights project

• Matt’s philosophy: “Don’t just build a product; build a movement”

• Why open source matters: “If the Founding Fathers were around today, they’d be open source advocates”

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-creator-of-wordpress-opens-up-matt-mullenweg

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Where to find Matt Mullenweg:

• X: https://x.com/photomatt

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattm/

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/photomatt/

• Website: https://ma.tt/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Matt Mullenweg

(05:10) Matt’s career journey

(11:15) Bay Lights project and philanthropy

(17:28) How Matt got involved with open source

(23:25) Why products like Meta’s Llama are “fake open source”

(27:14) The future of open source and how to get involved

(35:25) Building a successful online community

(39:12) The WP Engine controversy

(50:24) Facing criticism and controversy

(55:29) Addressing community concerns

(01:08:29) Forking Advanced Custom Fields

(01:11:15) The role of social media and public perception

(01:16:43) Acquiring and reviving Tumblr

(01:24:25) Automattic’s acquisition strategy

(01:28:51) Final thoughts and future plans

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Referenced:

• WordPress: https://wordpress.com/

• Automattic: https://automattic.com/

• CNET: https://www.cnet.com/

• Akismet: https://akismet.com/wordpress/

• Jetpack: https://jetpack.com/

• Toni Schneider on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonischneider/

• WooCommerce: https://woocommerce.com/

• Beeper: https://www.beeper.com/

• Day One: https://dayoneapp.com/

• Simplenote: https://simplenote.com/

• Pocket Casts: https://pocketcasts.com/

• Creative Commons: https://creativecommons.org/

• Audrey Capital: https://audrey.co/

• Stripe: https://stripe.com/

• SpaceX: https://www.spacex.com/

• Calm: https://www.calm.com/

• August: https://august.com/

• Daylight Computer: https://daylightcomputer.com/

• Keys Jazz Bistro: https://keysjazzbistro.com/

• Joomla: https://www.joomla.org/

• Drupal: https://new.drupal.org/

• Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/

• Wix: https://www.wix.com/

• Squarespace: https://www.squarespace.com/

• Tumblr: https://www.tumblr.com/

• Gravatar: https://gravatar.com/

• The Bay Lights: https://illuminate.org/projects/thebaylights/

• The Bay Lights 360: https://illuminate.org/the-bay-lights-360/

• Ben Davis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-davis-sf/

• Kinder High School for the Performing and Visual Arts: https://www.houstonisd.org/hspva

• Jack Dorsey: We’re Losing our Free Will to Algorithms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_8NganZSFI

• Marc Andreessen: https://a16z.com/author/marc-andreessen/

• Bill Gurley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billgurley/

• An inside look at X’s Community Notes | Keith Coleman (VP of Product) and Jay Baxter (ML Lead): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-x-built-the-best-fact-checking-system-on-the-internet

• Llama: https://www.llama.com/

• WordCamp US & Ecosystem Thinking: https://ma.tt/2024/09/ecosystem-thinking/

• As Wall Street Chases Profits, Fire Departments Have Paid the Price: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/17/us/fire-engines-shortage-private-equity.html

• WordCamp Asia: https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/

• Justin Baldoni Hit with Defamation Suit as PR Teams Turn on Each Other over Blake Lively’s ‘It Ends with Us’ Smear Campaign Allegations: https://deadline.com/2024/12/justin-baldoni-defamation-lawsuit-publicist-blake-lively-1236241784/

• How WordPress Hot Nacho Scandal Shapes WP Engine Dispute: https://www.searchenginejournal.com/how-wordpress-hot-nacho-scandal-shapes-wp-engine-dispute/539069/

• Gutenberg: https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/

• ClassicPress: https://www.classicpress.net/

• Behind the founder: Marc Benioff: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-founder-marc-benioff

• Mary Hubbard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryfhubbard/

• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach

• Founder mode: https://paulgraham.com/foundermode.html

• Cow.com: https://www.cow.com/

• David Karp on X: https://x.com/davidkarp

• Marissa Mayer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marissamayer/

• Alibaba: https://www.alibaba.com/

• WP Engine Tracker: https://wordpressenginetracker.com/