The Complexity of Forking Plugins in WordPress

Matt Mullenweg is the co-founder of WordPress, the open source platform powering a staggering 43% of the internet. He also serves as CEO of Automattic—the parent company of brands like WordPress.com, WooCommerce, and Tumblr—which is worth over $7 billion, with over 1,700 employees across 90 countries. In this episode, he discusses some of the most controversial topics surrounding WordPress, Automattic, and the broader open source community.

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What you’ll learn:

• Matt’s response to public criticism

• Why products like Meta’s Llama are “fake open source”

• How his team is turning around Tumblr after acquiring it for just $3 million (after Yahoo bought it for $1.1 billion)

• Why he mortgaged his home to fund San Francisco’s iconic Bay Lights project

• Matt’s philosophy: “Don’t just build a product; build a movement”

• Why open source matters: “If the Founding Fathers were around today, they’d be open source advocates”

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-creator-of-wordpress-opens-up-matt-mullenweg

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Where to find Matt Mullenweg:

• X: https://x.com/photomatt

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattm/

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/photomatt/

• Website: https://ma.tt/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Matt Mullenweg

(05:10) Matt’s career journey

(11:15) Bay Lights project and philanthropy

(17:28) How Matt got involved with open source

(23:25) Why products like Meta’s Llama are “fake open source”

(27:14) The future of open source and how to get involved

(35:25) Building a successful online community

(39:12) The WP Engine controversy

(50:24) Facing criticism and controversy

(55:29) Addressing community concerns

(01:08:29) Forking Advanced Custom Fields

(01:11:15) The role of social media and public perception

(01:16:43) Acquiring and reviving Tumblr

(01:24:25) Automattic’s acquisition strategy

(01:28:51) Final thoughts and future plans

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Referenced:

• WordPress: https://wordpress.com/

• Automattic: https://automattic.com/

• CNET: https://www.cnet.com/

• Akismet: https://akismet.com/wordpress/

• Jetpack: https://jetpack.com/

• Toni Schneider on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonischneider/

• WooCommerce: https://woocommerce.com/

• Beeper: https://www.beeper.com/

• Day One: https://dayoneapp.com/

• Simplenote: https://simplenote.com/

• Pocket Casts: https://pocketcasts.com/

• Creative Commons: https://creativecommons.org/

• Audrey Capital: https://audrey.co/

• Stripe: https://stripe.com/

• SpaceX: https://www.spacex.com/

• Calm: https://www.calm.com/

• August: https://august.com/

• Daylight Computer: https://daylightcomputer.com/

• Keys Jazz Bistro: https://keysjazzbistro.com/

• Joomla: https://www.joomla.org/

• Drupal: https://new.drupal.org/

• Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/

• Wix: https://www.wix.com/

• Squarespace: https://www.squarespace.com/

• Tumblr: https://www.tumblr.com/

• Gravatar: https://gravatar.com/

• The Bay Lights: https://illuminate.org/projects/thebaylights/

• The Bay Lights 360: https://illuminate.org/the-bay-lights-360/

• Ben Davis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-davis-sf/

• Kinder High School for the Performing and Visual Arts: https://www.houstonisd.org/hspva

• Jack Dorsey: We’re Losing our Free Will to Algorithms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_8NganZSFI

• Marc Andreessen: https://a16z.com/author/marc-andreessen/

• Bill Gurley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billgurley/

• An inside look at X’s Community Notes | Keith Coleman (VP of Product) and Jay Baxter (ML Lead): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-x-built-the-best-fact-checking-system-on-the-internet

• Llama: https://www.llama.com/

• WordCamp US & Ecosystem Thinking: https://ma.tt/2024/09/ecosystem-thinking/

• As Wall Street Chases Profits, Fire Departments Have Paid the Price: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/17/us/fire-engines-shortage-private-equity.html

• WordCamp Asia: https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/

• Justin Baldoni Hit with Defamation Suit as PR Teams Turn on Each Other over Blake Lively’s ‘It Ends with Us’ Smear Campaign Allegations: https://deadline.com/2024/12/justin-baldoni-defamation-lawsuit-publicist-blake-lively-1236241784/

• How WordPress Hot Nacho Scandal Shapes WP Engine Dispute: https://www.searchenginejournal.com/how-wordpress-hot-nacho-scandal-shapes-wp-engine-dispute/539069/

• Gutenberg: https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/

• ClassicPress: https://www.classicpress.net/

• Behind the founder: Marc Benioff: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-founder-marc-benioff

• Mary Hubbard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryfhubbard/

• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach

• Founder mode: https://paulgraham.com/foundermode.html

• Cow.com: https://www.cow.com/

• David Karp on X: https://x.com/davidkarp

• Marissa Mayer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marissamayer/

• Alibaba: https://www.alibaba.com/

• WP Engine Tracker: https://wordpressenginetracker.com/

• Kumbh Mela: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbh_Mela

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Recommended book:

• Maintenance: Of Everything (in progress): https://books.worksinprogress.co/book/maintenance-of-everything/addenda/page/introduction

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

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