Ellen Pao, founder of Project Include and former CEO of Reddit, dives into the pitfalls of tech's broken meritocracy. She reveals how bias and discrimination thrive under the guise of fairness and critiques ineffective quick fixes like generic bias training. Ellen discusses the urgent need for CEOs to engage authentically in diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives, advocating for a culture of trust and psychological safety in teams. With actionable insights, she champions systemic change that ensures everyone has a fair shot in the workplace.
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question_answer ANECDOTE
Project Include's Origin
Project Include started because a group of people realized companies lacked good DEI information.
They initially offered 87 recommendations, then expanded to cohorts and research reports.
insights INSIGHT
Virtual Bias
Virtual environments can increase bias and harassment due to heightened anxiety.
Professor Leanne Williams suggests that personal connection can mitigate this anxiety.
insights INSIGHT
Tech's DEI Challenges
Tech's "meritocracy" myth and strong founder mythology, often white and male, fostered DEI problems.
This has created an environment where problems festered, as seen with Elon Musk's actions on free speech.
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Radical Candor by Kim Scott offers a practical approach to management by emphasizing the importance of caring personally and challenging directly. The book argues that effective managers must find a balance between being empathetic and providing clear, honest feedback. Scott draws from her experiences at Google and Apple to provide actionable lessons on building strong relationships, giving feedback, and creating a collaborative work environment. The book introduces the concept of 'radical candor' as the sweet spot between obnoxious aggression and ruinous empathy, and provides tools and strategies for managers to implement this approach in their daily work[1][2][5].
Tech’s “meritocracy” is broken—Ellen Pao unpacks how to fix it.
Alright, let’s get real—tech’s so-called “meritocracy” is doing more harm than good, and it’s time to face it head-on. This week we’re bringing you an episode of the Radical Respect podcast. Kim and Wesley sit down with Ellen Pao, founder of Project Include, to dig into how the industry’s obsession with merit often masks deep-seated bias, exclusion, and outright harassment. Ellen doesn’t hold back as she breaks down why quick fixes (we see you, generic unconscious bias training) just don’t cut it, how unchecked bias erodes trust and psychological safety across teams, and the way Project Include is leading the charge with real strategies for change. From CEOs stepping up to own their role in DEI to addressing the messy realities of AI in the workplace, this conversation is all about building environments where everyone has a shot. Ellen’s story is packed with takeaways for anyone who’s struggled to balance compassion with calling out the tough stuff, and is ready to challenge the status quo and build workplaces where it’s better to have a hole than an asshole.
(00:00:00) Introduction Kim and Wesley introduce Ellen Pao, founder of Project Include. (00:01:37) The Genesis of Project Include How Project Include started and its impact on improving workplace inclusivity. (00:05:25) Challenges of Virtual Workspaces The increase in bias and harassment in virtual work environments. (00:06:38) Meritocracy and the Tech Industry The role of meritocracy in shaping tech’s culture and DEI challenges. (00:09:24) Overcoming Resistance to DEI Data-backed methods for fostering DEI support among skeptics. (00:13:46) DEI as a Business Imperative The importance of CEO involvement in creating and sustaining DEI initiatives. (00:19:50) Balancing Morality and Market Pressure How leaders can make ethical decisions that align with DEI principles. (00:25:31) Governing AI in the Workplace Key considerations for ethical and inclusive AI adoption in workplaces. (00:28:33) Social Media’s Role in Amplifying Harm The need for accountability in curbing online hate and misinformation. (00:37:26) Impactful Investments in DEI-Focused Ventures Stories of innovative ventures improving equity in healthcare and workplaces. (00:41:27) Conclusion
Radical Candor: Communication at Work 
