The Church Lobby

Ep 069: De-Sizing the Church (pt 1): How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next, with Karl Vaters

Apr 4, 2024

Author Karl Vaters discusses the unhealthy focus on church size in America, warning of the dangers it poses. He explores the origins of the church growth movement, unintended consequences, and the importance of prioritizing integrity and discipleship in church leadership.

36:30

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Episode guests

Karl Vaters

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Episode notes

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Quick takeaways

Value in churches should be assessed beyond numbers, emphasizing personal worth and spiritual depth.

Bigness obsession in American churches stems from historical, cultural influences favouring numerical growth over spiritual significance.

Deep dives

Understanding Decising: Assessing Value Without Obsessing Over Numbers

Decising, as explained in the podcast, involves assessing the value of something without fixating on numbers. The term Bigness is introduced as a concept where church sizes dictate perception and credibility. By emphasizing that personal and church value goes beyond numerical metrics, the podcast highlights how Bigness obsession in churches, especially in the American context, can lead to burnout and misguided priorities.

Introduction

2min

Reimagining Church Growth

11min

Exploring the Origins of the Church Growth Movement

5min

Unintended Consequences of Church Growth Obsession

14min

Emphasizing Discipleship and Integrity in Church Leadership

5min

We have an unhealthy relationship with bigness in the church. Especially in the American church. And it’s killing us. The rate of church closures, departing members, and pastoral burnout is growing exponentially.

This is the first episode of a series of podcasts based on Karl Vaters’ new book, De-Sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next. Karl talks about how we became so obsessed with bigness in the church, why it’s dangerous, and what we can do to change course.

Look for upcoming De-sizing the Church episodes in which Karl interviews Katelyn Beaty, Scot McKnight, Winn Collier, and more.

Karl's new book, De-sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next, is now available wherever you buy books, either electronically or in print. If you’ve read the book and you’d like Karl to speak to your group about the issues he raises in it, reach out at KarlVaters.com/Contact Me.

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The Church Lobby

Ep 069: De-Sizing the Church (pt 1): How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next, with Karl Vaters

Episode guests

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Deep dives

Understanding Decising: Assessing Value Without Obsessing Over Numbers

Origins of Bigness Obsession: Influence of American History and Church Growth Movements

Challenges of Bigness: Overconfidence, Oversimplified Goals, and Metric Dependency

Fixing the Obsession: Embracing Discipleship and Integrity

Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts