The Church Lobby

Karl Vaters talks to Laurie Graham about some of the big ways volunteerism has changed, and how we, as church leaders, can respond to these trends.Laurie runs smallchurchministry.com, an online ministry that provides resources and support for volunteers and ministry leaders in smaller churches.This is Laurie’s second time on the podcast (the last time she was known as Laurie Acker), and in this conversation she and Karl talk about how church volunteerism has been affected by people’s changing schedules, their desire for deeper meaning, the need to restore their trust, and more.Links:Website: https://smallchurchministry.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/smallchurchministry/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/smallchurchministryCreative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministrySmall Church Network & Academy: https://smallchurchministry.com/membership/Bonus Content SummaryRethinking Church Programs for Volunteer Flexibility, with Laurie GrahamKarl Vaters talks with Laurie Graham of SmallChurchMinistry.com about different ways we, as church leaders, can start to change church programs that were originally designed for the way people used to volunteer, into ministry that works for the more personal, seasonal way people live and commit today.Website: https://smallchurchministry.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/smallchurchministry/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/smallchurchministryCreative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministrySmall Church Network & Academy: https://smallchurchministry.com/membership/To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters talks through some helpful guidelines with Dave Ripper about how to read, meditate, and teach from the Bible in a richer, deeper way.Dave is the lead pastor of Crossway Christian Church, a multicongregational church in southern New Hampshire, focused on spiritual formation, and is the author of Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus: Reading the Bible like Dallas Willard.Karl and Dave explore who Dallas Willard was, and what his way of reading the Bible can do for us, including:Willard’s four steps on how to read the BibleA five-step outline for meditating on a textThe IMMERSE methodPreaching out of the overflowHow to let God speak to the church instead imposing your ideas into the text or onto the congregationLinks:Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus: Reading the Bible like Dallas Willard, by Dave RipperThe Dallas Willard podcastDaveRipper.comDeeper Experiences with God Podcast, with Dave RipperDave Ripper on InstagramDave Ripper on FacebookContact Dave RipperBonus video summaryThree Warnings from Dallas Willard about How Not to Read the Bible, with Dave RipperIn this subscriber-only bonus material, Karl Vaters talks with pastor Dave Ripper, the author of Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus: Reading the Bible like Dallas Willard, about why Bible readers should stay away from:Bible rouletteThe “It’s all in the Bible” ViewBible deismTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

In this engaging discussion, Jeff Hoglen, a church planter and CEO of ChurchPlanning.com, debunks the myth that all healthy churches must grow rapidly. He shares insights into how growth mirrors farming instead of fireworks, emphasizing the value of slow, steady development. Jeff encourages pastors to celebrate small wins and remain faithful during discouraging seasons. With practical advice on prioritizing discipleship and healthy church practices, he inspires leaders to focus on depth over spectacle.

Karl Vaters talks with Brad Edwards about the shift that’s happened over the last decade or so in how people perceive institutions, especially the institutional church.In this conversation they talk about how the rise of radical individualism has replaced once-trusted institutions, why a distrust in institutions is problematic, and why institutions—especially the church—still matter.Brad is a church planter and pastor of The Table Church in Lafayette, CO. He’s also the author of, The Reason for Church: Why the Body of Christ Still Matters in an Age of Anxiety, Division, and Radical Individualism. This conversation also includes an overview of the reasons behind the loss of institutionalism, and especially five Church Defeaters:Church Defeater 1: Spiritual PragmatismChurch Defeater 2: The Sacred SelfChurch Defeater 3: Counterfeit InstitutionsChurch Defeater 4: (Un)Civil religionsChurch Defeater 5: Virtuous Victimhood(CONGRATULATIONS to Brad on his book being named Book of the Year by Christianity Today magazine!)Links:The Reason for Church: Why the Body of Christ Still Matters in an Age of Anxiety, Division, and Radical IndividualismMere Orthodoxy BONUS TALKOur Role in the Grand Narrative of Scripture, with Brad EdwardsKarl Vaters talks with Brad Edwards about the importance of understanding the metanarrative of scripture as a foundational teaching for life and faith.In particular, their conversation addresses two storytelling terms. First, Main Character Syndrome, which helps us understand and clarify the dangers of the  hyper-individualism of our current age. Second, the MacGuffin, a term coined by movie director Alfred Hitchcock that helps us see what our role in God’s story really is. Links:The Reason for Church: Why the Body of Christ Still Matters in an Age of Anxiety, Division, and Radical IndividualismTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Do you know how to spot if someone in your congregation has a gambling problem? Once it’s been spotted or confessed, do you know what to do?Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Don Lichi about one of the fastest-growing addictions in the world, including:How is gambling defined?Why does it have such a strong grip on some people?Who is most likely to be addicted?How to get helpAnd moreDonald Lichi is vice president emeritus of Emerge Counseling Ministries, and author of the article, Is Gambling a Problem in the Church? You Bet! in Influence magazine. Links:Is Gambling a Problem in the Church? You Bet! (article)Emerge Counseling MinistriesBroken Windows of the Soul: A Pastor and Christian Psychologist Discuss Sexual Sins and the Prescription to Heal ThemYouVersion Bible App Bonus ChatWhat to Do if You’re a Pastor with a Gambling Problem, with Donald LichiPastors are not immune to the temptations of gambling and other addictions.In this short conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Don Lichi about how to recognize those tendencies in yourself, and what to do if you’re trapped in it. They also talk about who you should/should not share these problems with, and how to engage in preventative measures. Links:Is Gambling a Problem in the Church? You Bet! (article)Emerge Counseling MinistriesBroken Windows of the Soul: A Pastor and Christian Psychologist Discuss Sexual Sins and the Prescription to Heal ThemTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Jeff Forrey about grief, recovery, and how your church can help people, both inside and outside the congregation, deal with grief in healthy ways.Grief has no rules, but there are healthy ways through it. And churches—small churches especially—are uniquely suited to provide real comfort for people in these difficult seasons of loss.Karl and Jeff talk about some important principles, including:Why do we need help with grief?What kind of damage can we experience if we don’t deal with grief properly?What's a typical time frame for experiencing grief?What common mistakes are made in responding to grievers?And moreJeff Forrey oversees GriefShare, which can come alongside your church to equip you to be a resource for people in need.Links:GriefShareChurch InitiativeDivorceCare Session 1 PreviewGriefShare on FacebookGriefShare on InstagramGriefShare on YouTube CCEF.orgGrieving Room, by Leanne FriesenThere is no bonus material for this episode.

In recent decades, parachurch organizations have carved out an important space in church life and ministry.Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Angie Ward about why it’s important for ministers to take a closer look at what the church is, what parachurch organizations bring to the mix, and how we can move forward more missionally, even as the emphasis on institutions diminishes.Dr. Ward is director of the Doctor of Ministry program and associate professor of leadership and ministry at Denver Seminary. She’s also the author of Beyond Church and Parachurch: From Competition to Missional Extension, which is the basis for this conversation. Links:Beyond Church and Parachurch: From Competition to Missional ExtensionBeyond the Local Church: How Apostolic Movements Can Change the World, by Sam MetcalfThe Church and the Parachurch: An Uneasy Marriage (A Critical Concern Book), by Jerry E. WhitePolycentric Leadership: Church as a Discipleship Movement, with Dan White Jr. (The Church Lobby, Ep 039)Uncharted Leadership: 20 Case Studies to Help Ministry Leaders Adapt to Uncertainty, by Angie WardBONUS TALKThe Five Advantages Of Parachurch Organizations, with Dr. Angie WardEvery parachurch ministry needs to flow from and/or point to the local church. So why do we need parachurch ministries, at all?In this bonus conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Angie Ward about the five benefits that churches can gain from partnering with parachurch ministries in productive ways:ReachSpecializationLay involvementPromoting unityTo call the local church to mission Links:Beyond Church and Parachurch: From Competition to Missional ExtensionTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Austin Carty, pastor of Boulevard Baptist Church and author of "Some of the Words Are Theirs," shares insights on the art of sermon writing. He discusses how to choose impactful passages and the importance of budgeting time for effective sermon preparation. Carty emphasizes the need for humble conviction over certainty, using stories to convey theological ideas, and acknowledging diverse viewpoints. He also highlights the role of routine in enhancing creativity and the significance of aiming sermons at local congregations to broaden their appeal.

What happens when all the church growth principles that were working in your church, suddenly stop working when you need them the most?Karl Vaters interviews Paul Dazet about what happened to him, as the pastor of a fast-growing church shortly after he was diagnosed with cancer. Over 100 members left, saying things like “I just can’t handle being sad at church,” and “It used to be so energetic. Your illness changed the whole vibe.” Paul’s illness and the shaved head that went with it were seen as a show of weakness, need, and vulnerability that many people were uncomfortable seeing on a church platform.But it’s not all bad news. Paul also walks us through the positive changes he has made in his approach to pastoring, including allowing space for lament, and how he now defines ministry success.Links:Paul’s article on SubstackFacebook - https://www.facebook.com/pastorpauldazet/Instagram - @pauldazetTwitter / X - @pauldazetBluesky - @pastorpaul.bsky.social‬LibbyHoopla Bonus video The Five False Jesus’ of the “Successful” Church, with Paul DazetPaul Dazet found out that a numerically-growing church isn’t necessarily a healthy church. In this Bonus content, Karl Vaters talks with Paul about the 5 ways churches can be tempted to see Jesus that are not what Jesus intended for his church. They are:“Jesus wants you rich” (Prosperity Jesus)“Jesus votes red, white, and blue” (Nationalistic Jesus)“Jesus is disappointed in you” (Judgmental Jesus)“Jesus only loves people who look and believe like us” (Exclusive Jesus)“Jesus is here to meet your every need” (Consumeristic Jesus) Links:Paul’s article on SubstackFacebook - https://www.facebook.com/pastorpauldazet/Instagram - @pauldazetTwitter / X - @pauldazetBluesky - @pastorpaul.bsky.social‬To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters interviews Leanne Friesen about grief. Specifically, how pastors, family members, and other caring people can help give people the room to process their grief when they go through a profound loss. Karl and Leanne also talk about how to process those feelings ourselves.Leanne is a former pastor and is the author of Grieving Room: Making Space for All the Hard Things after Death and Loss. She talks with wisdom and compassion about the difficult, but important principles she learned as she went through the death of her sister more than a decade ago.Links:Grieving Room: Making Space for All the Hard Things after Death and LossInstagram: @Grieving.Room and @leanne_friesenLeanneFriesen.comFacebook: A Little Bit of Grieving Room Bonus videoHow to Give People Room When They’re Not “Getting Over” Their Grief, with Leanne FriesenKarl Vaters interviews Leanne Friesen about one of the hardest aspects of grief – what happens when you can’t seem to “get over it” the way people seem to think you should?As Leanne explains, when a loved one dies, the ones who have lost them need room for grief to be a part of their lives for the rest of their life. By recognizing this, they can deal with it in a much healthier way.Links:Grieving Room: Making Space for All the Hard Things after Death and LossTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.