The Church Lobby

Eric Hoke is known as the “I Help Pastors Get Jobs” Guy.Karl Vaters talks with Eric about how to build long-term sustainable ministry, reduce financial stress, and create value in the marketplace by becoming an intentionally covocational pastor.Eric’s new book, Market Street Pastor: Ministry Sustainability without Money Stress, addresses many of the issues involved in making the shift toward covocational ministry.This conversation covers the subjects of:The mindset shift that most pastors must take to start down this roadThe value pastors bring to the marketplaceFinding your marketable skills through using the Heart- Head-Hands-Feet methodHow to get through the clutter of thousands of job applicantsHow to present yourself and your skillsAnd so much more Links from this episode:Market Street Pastor: Ministry Sustainability without Money StressIHelpPastorsGetJobs.comDaily Examen App: "Reimagining the Examen" for iphone and androidBonus ContentHow to Build a LinkedIn Profile that Will Get Job Leads, with Eric HokeLinkedIn remains a primary online site for those seeking employment, and it’s especially helpful for pastors seeking covocational employment.In this very practical conversation, Eric Hoke talks with Karl Vaters about some common mistakes to avoid and opportunities to take advantage of that will get you noticed—and get the side hustle job that suits your skills and needs.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

For Episode 100, Karl Vaters has a very special conversation with his father, Albert Vaters, about the pastor’s relationship with God’s Word, the Bible.In addition to each of them spending 40 years as pastors (over 80 years of combined pastoral ministry!), they were also both raised as preacher’s kids, so they can speak from multiple perspectives about life in a pastor’s home.In this conversation, Karl and Albert talk about:What it was like to be raised with a positive experience in a pastor’s homeHow to give the Bible a central place in our homesThe importance of living what you’re preachingHow to approach the Bible correctly as a pastor and a parentAnd moreLinks:John Lennox: God Does ExistJohn Lennox: The Bible and age of the earth?John Lennox: Why I am a Christian and a scientist

Karl Vaters talks with Russ Taff. One of the great voices of Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) in the 1970s-90s, Russ won five Grammys, 13 Dove Awards, and was inducted into the Gospel Music Hall of Fame three times (with the Imperials, the Gaither Vocal Band, and as a solo artist).He also spent decades struggling with alcoholism, church hurt, and shame, stemming from the severe trauma he experienced in the pastor's house of his childhood.This interview is raw. It’s real, and it’s very emotional.In addition to talking through his testimony at length, Karl and Russ also take a song-by-song walk through his newest album, which is a journey through his story of pain, trauma, lament, and redemption.Links:Cover Story (The album)RussTaff.comBecome a Financial PartnerSubscribe to Karl's free weekly newsletter

Alberto Bello is a church planter in Bakersfield CA, and he’s written one of those books everyone says they could write, Ten Things They Didn't Tell Me About Leadership.Karl Vaters talks with Alberto about that book, the experiences that led to it, and the lessons to be learned from it.Including:Knowing who you are in JesusThe Comparison TrapHow failure is necessary for successHow not to be people-pleasing leaderAnd more Links:Ten Things They Didn't Tell Me About Leadership

Mike Rubino is a pastor in the unique ministry environment of Long Island NY. He’s also the founder and director of Church Revitalize, which helps churches that need to revitalize their ministry, through cohorts, coaching, and more.Karl Vaters talks with Mike about church revitalization, with a focus on Mike’s new workbook, The Revitalize Roadmap: Getting Your Church on the Road to Greater Health.Subjects include:The difference between church growth and church revitalizationThe importance of pastoral health and renewalHow to understand and fix your church’s blind spotsIdentifying your church’s God-given Geographic ResponsibilityAnd more Links:Church RevitalizeThe Revitalize Roadmap: Getting Your Church on the Road to Greater HealthBeTheChurch.orgBook - Crucial ConversationsTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Every church should be open to everyone who wants to attend. So, we need to be more purposeful about making sure we're not unintentionally denying access without realizing it.Barbara Stanley oversees Wonderful Works Ministry, which equips churches to serve families affected by disability. They have a large and growing set of resources to help churches of all types.Karl Vaters talks with Barb about a variety of subjects, including:Why disability inclusion mattersHow to come alongside families who are affected by disabilityHow every church can take some simple first steps toward disability inclusionHow to deal with some of the changing language around disability Links:Wonderful Works MinistryPodcast: Wonderful Works Talks

A clergy sabbatical is not a luxury for the few, it’s an essential element in recalibrating your ministry and reestablishing healthy habits for ministry longevity.Sabbaticals are having a moment right now. With the accelerated pace of life and ministry, we’re recognizing their value in a fresh, new way.Sean Nemecek and the team at Pastor In Residence Ministries have been working with pastors for years, helping them get the most out of a sabbatical. And now they’ve put it all in one place with the Clergy Sabbatical Toolkit,, a practical guide that will help pastors, their congregations, and their families.Karl Vaters talkes with Sean talk about the aspects of an effective sabbatical, including:What is a sabbatical?Why is a sabbatical important for pastors?What’s the ideal sabbatical length?Dealing with common objections to taking a sabbaticalFinancial considerationsAnd moreLinks:Clergy Sabbatical Toolkit,Pastor In Residence MinistriesBonus ContentAnger, Depression, and Temptation: Dealing with the Unexpected on Your Sabbatical, with Sean NemecekStuff happens when you step away from the hectic pace of everyday ministry life to take a multi-month sabbatical. Most of it is good, some of it is surprising, and if you’re not ready for it, some of it can cause damage.Thankfully, Sean Nemecek and the team at Pastor In Residence Ministries have been working with pastors for years, helping them get the most out of their sabbaticals. And now they’ve put it all in one place with the Clergy Sabbatical Toolkit.In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Sean about some of the unexpected things that happen on sabbatical, so you can be prepared to get the most out of your time of refreshing and renewal.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Have you ever noticed that people don’t pay attention to sermons the way they used to? It may not be the fault of shorter attention spans (not exclusively, anyway). There’s a lot more happening — and we, as pastors and communicators can do something about it.Karl Vaters talks with Payton Minzenmayer. He's a pastor, and the founder of ChristianStoryLab.com, a new website that offers great ideas to make our writing and speaking more engaging by using the aspects of story — just like Jesus did.Some of what they talk about includes: GamificationThe Open Loop MethodThe Anapastic MeterLinks:ChristianStoryLab.com3 Proven Strategies to Gamify Your StorytellingOpen Loop Method: Hook Your Reader And Keep Their AttentionThe Secret To Unforgettable Stories (The Anapastic Meter)ChurchFuel.comYou can follow Payton on LinkedIn and X.Bonus video (Supporters and Subscribers only)3 Simple Habits to Elevate Your Writing and Speaking, with Payton MinzenmayerStorytelling is the most powerful form of communication. But most of us could use help to do it better. Karl Vaters talks with Payton Minzenmayer, of ChristianStoryLab.com, about the three habits Payton uses every day to strengthen his storytelling muscles. They’re simple, repeatable, and so helpful.Links:ChristianStoryLab.com3 Simple Habits to Elevate Your Writing In 30 Days Or LessTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

According to John’s vision in Revelation 7:9, heaven will be filled with people who are still recognized by their ethnicity (every nation, tribe, people, and language). So, if we want the church here and now to reflect that, Sunday mornings must stop being the most segregated time of the week.That’s the premise of Karl Vaters’ conversation with Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul Jones, the co-authors of In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture, which Karl named as one of his best nonfiction books of the year for 2024.Jamaal and Timothy focus on what we can do to create a more kingdom-minded approach to ethnic diversity, while acknowledging that ethnic diversity is not the point of the church, but a byproduct of the gospel message.Links:In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture Bonus video3 Steps to Move Your Church Toward Multiethnic Generosity, with Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul JonesOne of the habits (liturgies) that Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul Jones suggest in their book,  In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture, is to help your church move toward multiethnic generosity.Karl Vaters talks with them as they suggest a simple plan to visit a faithful, gospel-driven church outside your own ethnicity or culture once every three months. Embrace this habit as an opportunity to learn from sisters and brothers in other cultures. And when you do, walk through these three steps:Consider your own preferencesVisit the other churchBe grateful for your preferences—and be willing to lay them downTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

The crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus changed everything. Not just for eternity, but for the world here and now.According to Glen Scrivener, the author of The Air We Breathe, How We All Came to Believe In Freedom, Kindness, Progress, and Equality, most of what we now consider to be self-evident human values were not so evident or common before Jesus.In this conversation, Karl and Glen talk about:How so many principles that most people consider universal, are actually the result of the Christian worldviewWhy this goes unnoticed by people, Christians and non-Christians alikeWhy it’s important to regain this understandingWhat the values of the world looked like before the cross upended everythingHow a clear understanding of the first three chapters of Genesis is the foundation for all of itPodcast Links:Speak LifeBook: The Air We Breathe: How We All Came to Believe in Freedom, Kindness, Progress, and EqualityBook: 3 2 1: The Story of God, the World and YouBonus SummaryHow Good Theology Became the Basis for Good Science, with Glen ScrivenerGood theology and good science are good friends. In this short conversation with Glen Scrivener, Karl Vaters asks him about the three legs upon which this reality sits.These three principles become clear when we have a better understanding of the first three chapters of the Bible:The freedom of GodThat humans can understand God’s waysTaking human fallibility into accountTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.