Have you ever noticed that people don’t pay attention to sermons the way they used to? It may not be the fault of shorter attention spans (not exclusively, anyway). There’s a lot more happening — and we, as pastors and communicators can do something about it.Karl Vaters talks with Payton Minzenmayer. He's a pastor, and the founder of ChristianStoryLab.com, a new website that offers great ideas to make our writing and speaking more engaging by using the aspects of story — just like Jesus did.Some of what they talk about includes: GamificationThe Open Loop MethodThe Anapastic MeterLinks:ChristianStoryLab.com3 Proven Strategies to Gamify Your StorytellingOpen Loop Method: Hook Your Reader And Keep Their AttentionThe Secret To Unforgettable Stories (The Anapastic Meter)ChurchFuel.comYou can follow Payton on LinkedIn and X.Bonus video (Supporters and Subscribers only)3 Simple Habits to Elevate Your Writing and Speaking, with Payton MinzenmayerStorytelling is the most powerful form of communication. But most of us could use help to do it better. Karl Vaters talks with Payton Minzenmayer, of ChristianStoryLab.com, about the three habits Payton uses every day to strengthen his storytelling muscles. They’re simple, repeatable, and so helpful.Links:ChristianStoryLab.com3 Simple Habits to Elevate Your Writing In 30 Days Or Less

According to John’s vision in Revelation 7:9, heaven will be filled with people who are still recognized by their ethnicity (every nation, tribe, people, and language). So, if we want the church here and now to reflect that, Sunday mornings must stop being the most segregated time of the week.That’s the premise of Karl Vaters’ conversation with Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul Jones, the co-authors of In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture, which Karl named as one of his best nonfiction books of the year for 2024.Jamaal and Timothy focus on what we can do to create a more kingdom-minded approach to ethnic diversity, while acknowledging that ethnic diversity is not the point of the church, but a byproduct of the gospel message.Links:In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture Bonus video3 Steps to Move Your Church Toward Multiethnic Generosity, with Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul JonesOne of the habits (liturgies) that Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul Jones suggest in their book,  In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture, is to help your church move toward multiethnic generosity.Karl Vaters talks with them as they suggest a simple plan to visit a faithful, gospel-driven church outside your own ethnicity or culture once every three months. Embrace this habit as an opportunity to learn from sisters and brothers in other cultures. And when you do, walk through these three steps:Consider your own preferencesVisit the other churchBe grateful for your preferences—and be willing to lay them down

The crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus changed everything. Not just for eternity, but for the world here and now.According to Glen Scrivener, the author of The Air We Breathe, How We All Came to Believe In Freedom, Kindness, Progress, and Equality, most of what we now consider to be self-evident human values were not so evident or common before Jesus.In this conversation, Karl and Glen talk about:How so many principles that most people consider universal, are actually the result of the Christian worldviewWhy this goes unnoticed by people, Christians and non-Christians alikeWhy it’s important to regain this understandingWhat the values of the world looked like before the cross upended everythingHow a clear understanding of the first three chapters of Genesis is the foundation for all of itPodcast Links:Speak LifeBook: The Air We Breathe: How We All Came to Believe in Freedom, Kindness, Progress, and EqualityBook: 3 2 1: The Story of God, the World and YouBonus SummaryHow Good Theology Became the Basis for Good Science, with Glen ScrivenerGood theology and good science are good friends. In this short conversation with Glen Scrivener, Karl Vaters asks him about the three legs upon which this reality sits.These three principles become clear when we have a better understanding of the first three chapters of the Bible:The freedom of GodThat humans can understand God’s waysTaking human fallibility into account

Karl Vaters talks with Scot McKnight about what we can learn from those who are deconstructing their faith.This conversation is based on the content of Scot’s new book (co-written with Tommy Preson Phillips), Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ.This is a challenging book and a challenging conversation, especially if you are to the right of center theologically and politically (like Scot and Karl). But I encourage you not to write it off for those reasons.Scot makes the case, through personal observation and thorough statistics, that people who use a term like “deconstruction” are probably not leaving Jesus, but are usually trying to find a simpler, more genuine representation of him than what they’ve seen in many of our churches. Deconstructors are asking important questions and shining a light on issues we need to pay attention to. Links from this Episode:Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for ChristThe New Testament In ColorNick Crawley - Bible For LifeBonus Content Summary The Three Stages of DeconstructionFrom chapter 6 of Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ, Scot McKnight shares the three distinct steps most deconstructors go through (Liminality, Elimination, and Liberation), and what they mean.Knowing these phases can be very helpful for us, as church leaders, to be involved in the conversation with them. When we step into this space instead of running from it, we have the chance to learn, and to guide them as they seek to draw closer to Jesus.

Karl Vaters interviews Matt Lucas about starting your congregation on the road to spiritual maturity through increasing their Bible reading. Specifically, how reading the Bible at least four times a week is so powerful, it's been called "The Power of Four."Matt is the CEO of Our Daily Bread (known for their quarterly devotionals) and The Center for Bible Engagement.Karl and Matt talk about:What is The Power of Four?Why does reading the Bible 4+ times a week make such a difference in spiritual maturity?The importance of reading and hearing the Bible in churchHelpful ways to gauge spiritual maturityHow to use Power of Four to help a congregation become more matureLinks:Bible Engagement: A Key to Spiritual GrowthCenter for Bible EngagementA Non Anxious Presence by Mark SayersBonus Content SummaryA Congregational Survey to Help Track Your Congregation’s Spiritual Maturity, with Matt LucasHow do you know if your congregation is maturing? Tracking church attendance is not enough.Matt Lucas and the team at Our Daily Bread are creating a powerful new tool to help pastors and their congregations.In this Bonus Material, Karl Vaters talks with Matt as he shows us this new tool, explaining what it will do, how easy it will be, and how you’ll be able to use it to lead your congregation well.

Retirement isn’t what it used to be. In the U.S. military, retirement is mandatory at 62 years of age, but U.S. Army Garrison Chaplain (MAJ) Lisa A. Northway is an exception to that. Lisa, who’s currently stationed in Fort Sill, OK, has been called the “Grandma Moses” of the Army Chaplaincy. She recently received permission to extend her chaplaincy for a few more years.In this podcast, Karl Vaters talks with Lisa about how to have vibrant ministry past retirement age, includingThe value of long-term experience in today’s ministry environmentHow to pace yourself for the long-termHow not to block the way for younger ministersHow to mentor younger ministers Links from this Episode:Elizabeth Fulgaro's Eagles NestBook: The Fantasy Fallacy by Shannon EthridgeBook: Unwanted by Jay StringerBook: The Awakened Brain by Dr. Lisa MillerBonus ContentNavigating the Challenges of Being a Woman In Ministry, with Lisa NorthwayWhat roles does the Bible allow women to serve in the church? This is a hot-button topic, for sure. In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with U.S. Army Garrison Chaplain Lisa Northway about the challenges she faces as a woman in ministry, and how to address those issues among the troops she serves.

In this conversation, Allen T. Stanton, an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church and author of "The Gift of Small," champions the unique gifts of small churches. He argues for a mindset shift, celebrating how smaller congregations can foster deep community connections over mere growth metrics. Stanton discusses the nimbleness often lost in hierarchies, the importance of informal meetings, and the special role older adults play. With humor and practical insights, he reveals how small churches can thrive through strong relationships and adaptive leadership.

Jon Sanders, co-host of the EntrePastors Podcast and Director of Coaching for the 95Network, discusses the shift toward covocational pastoring. He explains how this model enhances financial security and fosters deeper connections within church communities. The conversation covers the importance of adapting pastoral roles to modern expectations, leveraging transferable skills in the job market, and improving financial sustainability. Jon also shares humorous anecdotes, showcasing the need for lightheartedness amidst ministry challenges.

Why would a young church planter choose to do ministry in the poorest neighborhood of a city in crisis?Many churches are fleeing the inner cities. Grand old church buildings with deep histories sit empty. But Tim Walker and Restored Church are facing these realities head-on in Wilkes-Barre PA.Karl Vaters talks with Tim about subjects like:Their church’s Hub for Movement strategyTheir decision to do ministry in the poorest part of townMinistry in a deeply post-Christian contextHonoring history, while moving into the future from a legacy church buildingTheir plan to plant a microchurch on every block of Wilkes-BarreLinks from this episode:Future Church, by Will Mancini and Cory HartmanFrom Megachurch to Multiplication, by Chris GalanosCory Hartman Podcast Interview (Ep 29)Frank Wooden Podcast Interview (Ep 81)GotQuestions.orgRestored ChurchTim@restoredchurch.orgBonus ContentHow To Foster Pastoral Collaboration In Your Town, with Tim WalkerKarl Vaters talks with Tim Walker about how he and other pastors in his town have created a network of ministry collaboration that blesses all churches and reaches the community more effectively.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters talks with Chase Replogle about one of the most controversial, but unavoidable topics today—living with offense without being offended. This material comes from his just-released book, A Sharp Compassion: 7 Hard Words to Heal Our Insecurities and Free Us from Offense.Karl and Chase talk about why offense is a necessary part of life, how to use it well, and deal with it properly.Subjects include:How Jesus intentionally used offensive words in strategic situations to bring about desired resultsThe importance of discipleshipHow the absence of close relationships makes us more offendableHow church leaders can help those who struggle with being offendedAnd moreChase Replogle is also the author of The 5 Masculine Instincts: A Guide to Becoming a Better Man, and is the host of the Pastor Writer Podcast. He pastors the Bent Oak Church in Springfield, Missouri.Links from this episode:Life Together by Dietrich Bonhoeffer Bonus Content SummaryThe Danger Of The Cult Of Self-affirmationKarl Vaters talks with Chase Replogle about the dangers of using self-affirmation as a guide to life and truth. Recent surveys have shown that self-affirmation, and specifically “how I feel at the moment” have widely replaced universal truths in many people’s lives.It’s also made its way into the church. While 91% of U.S. adults agree that “the best way to find yourself is by looking within yourself,” 76% of practicing Christians agreed with that statement.As Chase wrote in A Sharp Compassion, “Religion has not disappeared from America, as so many feared; instead, it has, like everything from our entertainment to our diets, become personalized. It has shifted from the risk of offense to the affirmation of the self.”