The Church Lobby

Karl Vaters talks with Scot McKnight about what we can learn from those who are deconstructing their faith.This conversation is based on the content of Scot’s new book (co-written with Tommy Preson Phillips), Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ.This is a challenging book and a challenging conversation, especially if you are to the right of center theologically and politically (like Scot and Karl). But I encourage you not to write it off for those reasons.Scot makes the case, through personal observation and thorough statistics, that people who use a term like “deconstruction” are probably not leaving Jesus, but are usually trying to find a simpler, more genuine representation of him than what they’ve seen in many of our churches. Deconstructors are asking important questions and shining a light on issues we need to pay attention to. Links from this Episode:Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for ChristThe New Testament In ColorNick Crawley - Bible For LifeBonus Content Summary The Three Stages of DeconstructionFrom chapter 6 of Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ, Scot McKnight shares the three distinct steps most deconstructors go through (Liminality, Elimination, and Liberation), and what they mean.Knowing these phases can be very helpful for us, as church leaders, to be involved in the conversation with them. When we step into this space instead of running from it, we have the chance to learn, and to guide them as they seek to draw closer to Jesus.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters interviews Matt Lucas about starting your congregation on the road to spiritual maturity through increasing their Bible reading. Specifically, how reading the Bible at least four times a week is so powerful, it's been called "The Power of Four."Matt is the CEO of Our Daily Bread (known for their quarterly devotionals) and The Center for Bible Engagement.Karl and Matt talk about:What is The Power of Four?Why does reading the Bible 4+ times a week make such a difference in spiritual maturity?The importance of reading and hearing the Bible in churchHelpful ways to gauge spiritual maturityHow to use Power of Four to help a congregation become more matureLinks:Bible Engagement: A Key to Spiritual GrowthCenter for Bible EngagementA Non Anxious Presence by Mark SayersBonus Content SummaryA Congregational Survey to Help Track Your Congregation’s Spiritual Maturity, with Matt LucasHow do you know if your congregation is maturing? Tracking church attendance is not enough.Matt Lucas and the team at Our Daily Bread are creating a powerful new tool to help pastors and their congregations.In this Bonus Material, Karl Vaters talks with Matt as he shows us this new tool, explaining what it will do, how easy it will be, and how you’ll be able to use it to lead your congregation well.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Retirement isn’t what it used to be. In the U.S. military, retirement is mandatory at 62 years of age, but U.S. Army Garrison Chaplain (MAJ) Lisa A. Northway is an exception to that. Lisa, who’s currently stationed in Fort Sill, OK, has been called the “Grandma Moses” of the Army Chaplaincy. She recently received permission to extend her chaplaincy for a few more years.In this podcast, Karl Vaters talks with Lisa about how to have vibrant ministry past retirement age, includingThe value of long-term experience in today’s ministry environmentHow to pace yourself for the long-termHow not to block the way for younger ministersHow to mentor younger ministers Links from this Episode:Elizabeth Fulgaro's Eagles NestBook: The Fantasy Fallacy by Shannon EthridgeBook: Unwanted by Jay StringerBook: The Awakened Brain by Dr. Lisa MillerBonus ContentNavigating the Challenges of Being a Woman In Ministry, with Lisa NorthwayWhat roles does the Bible allow women to serve in the church? This is a hot-button topic, for sure. In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with U.S. Army Garrison Chaplain Lisa Northway about the challenges she faces as a woman in ministry, and how to address those issues among the troops she serves.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

In this conversation, Allen T. Stanton, an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church and author of "The Gift of Small," champions the unique gifts of small churches. He argues for a mindset shift, celebrating how smaller congregations can foster deep community connections over mere growth metrics. Stanton discusses the nimbleness often lost in hierarchies, the importance of informal meetings, and the special role older adults play. With humor and practical insights, he reveals how small churches can thrive through strong relationships and adaptive leadership.

Jon Sanders, co-host of the EntrePastors Podcast and Director of Coaching for the 95Network, discusses the shift toward covocational pastoring. He explains how this model enhances financial security and fosters deeper connections within church communities. The conversation covers the importance of adapting pastoral roles to modern expectations, leveraging transferable skills in the job market, and improving financial sustainability. Jon also shares humorous anecdotes, showcasing the need for lightheartedness amidst ministry challenges.

Why would a young church planter choose to do ministry in the poorest neighborhood of a city in crisis?Many churches are fleeing the inner cities. Grand old church buildings with deep histories sit empty. But Tim Walker and Restored Church are facing these realities head-on in Wilkes-Barre PA.Karl Vaters talks with Tim about subjects like:Their church’s Hub for Movement strategyTheir decision to do ministry in the poorest part of townMinistry in a deeply post-Christian contextHonoring history, while moving into the future from a legacy church buildingTheir plan to plant a microchurch on every block of Wilkes-BarreLinks from this episode:Future Church, by Will Mancini and Cory HartmanFrom Megachurch to Multiplication, by Chris GalanosCory Hartman Podcast Interview (Ep 29)Frank Wooden Podcast Interview (Ep 81)GotQuestions.orgRestored ChurchTim@restoredchurch.orgBonus ContentHow To Foster Pastoral Collaboration In Your Town, with Tim WalkerKarl Vaters talks with Tim Walker about how he and other pastors in his town have created a network of ministry collaboration that blesses all churches and reaches the community more effectively.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters talks with Chase Replogle about one of the most controversial, but unavoidable topics today—living with offense without being offended. This material comes from his just-released book, A Sharp Compassion: 7 Hard Words to Heal Our Insecurities and Free Us from Offense.Karl and Chase talk about why offense is a necessary part of life, how to use it well, and deal with it properly.Subjects include:How Jesus intentionally used offensive words in strategic situations to bring about desired resultsThe importance of discipleshipHow the absence of close relationships makes us more offendableHow church leaders can help those who struggle with being offendedAnd moreChase Replogle is also the author of The 5 Masculine Instincts: A Guide to Becoming a Better Man, and is the host of the Pastor Writer Podcast. He pastors the Bent Oak Church in Springfield, Missouri.Links from this episode:Life Together by Dietrich Bonhoeffer Bonus Content SummaryThe Danger Of The Cult Of Self-affirmationKarl Vaters talks with Chase Replogle about the dangers of using self-affirmation as a guide to life and truth. Recent surveys have shown that self-affirmation, and specifically “how I feel at the moment” have widely replaced universal truths in many people’s lives.It’s also made its way into the church. While 91% of U.S. adults agree that “the best way to find yourself is by looking within yourself,” 76% of practicing Christians agreed with that statement.As Chase wrote in A Sharp Compassion, “Religion has not disappeared from America, as so many feared; instead, it has, like everything from our entertainment to our diets, become personalized. It has shifted from the risk of offense to the affirmation of the self.”

In September and October over 1.2 million people will search online for “Trunk-or-Treat near me.” Here’s how to be one of the churches they find.Karl Vaters talks with Darrell Stetler about practical steps to help churches of any size put on a high-quality, gospel-centered Trunk-or-Treat event. Darrell is a small-church pastor in Oklahoma City and he has created a free 23-page guide called Trunk-orTreat Planning for Churches: A Step-by-step Guide.Karl and Darrell talk about:The benefits of having a church Trunk-or-TreatPicking a themeWho it’s designed to reachWhen to start planningRecruiting volunteersHow to gather info from attendersHow to follow upPodcast Links:Free 23-page Planning Guide with Trunk-or-Treat Ideas for ChurchesThe Gospel Trunk-or-Treat Planning SystemPrevious Darrell Stetler Interview (Ep 38)Also from Darrell Stetler:NewStart Discipleship CurriculumFree New Believer Bible Reading Plan (1 Page PDF)Free audiobook on Discipling Your ChildrenFree NewStart Discipleship Journal: A 54-page Discipleship Bible Study for new Christians.Free one-hour Discipleship Training workshopSocial media:facebook.com/darrellstetler2facebook.com/newstartdiscipleshipyoutube.com/@newstartdiscipleshiptwitter.com/newstartdiscBonus SummaryYes, Your Church Can Do Trunk-or-Treat without Compromising Your Christian Values, with Darrell StetlerIf you have problems with Halloween, I'm right there with you. Not a fan. In this short video, Darrell Stetler and Karl Vaters talk about:Why our churches do a trunk-or-treatThe three attitudes Christians can have toward HalloweenThe misunderstood non-pagan origins of HalloweenWhy it’s okay for churches to offer a safe, Bible-based alternative Bonus Content Links:Halloween: A Distinctively Christian HolidayFree 23 Page Planning Guide with Trunk or Treat Ideas for ChurchesThe Gospel Trunk or Treat Planning SystemTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters talks with Brad Roth about the content from his new book, Flyover Church: How Jesus’ Ministry in Rural Places Is Good News Everywhere, for which Karl wrote the foreword.Topics include:How the rural church is different from the city and suburban church, not just in scale, but in typeHow metrics are very different in the rural churchThe lure of strategyThe radically different pace of rural ministryAnd moreBrad is also the author of The Hunger Inside: How the Meal Jesus Gave Transforms Lives, and God's Country: Faith, Hope, and the Future of the Rural Church.Links:DoxologyProject.comBook: God's Country: Faith, Hope, and the Future of the Rural ChurchBook: The Hunger Inside: How the Meal Jesus Gave Transforms LivesBook: Flyover Church: How Jesus' Ministry in Rural Places Is Good News Everywhere​Brad Roth Bonus Chat summaryOne New Person: Toward An Authentic Metric For The Rural ChurchKarl Vaters talks with Brad Roth about how and why metrics work very differently in rural churches than in urban and suburban churches. As Brad wrote, “Most of us don’t need numbers to know whether our church is thriving. Numbers often stand in for intuition and attempt to substitute with a dashboard what can only be learned through years spent with a people in a place.”To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Craig T. Owens, an insightful author and guide for shepherd leaders, shares his experiences with difficult congregants in this thought-provoking conversation. He discusses the challenges of dealing with flattery, criticism, and gossip, offering wisdom on handling slander with grace. The impact of personality clashes and the importance of emotional wisdom for pastors are emphasized. Owens also explores the evolving landscape of pastoral work, underlining the necessity of balancing personal life and ministry while sharing amusing anecdotes from his journey.