In this episode, Nick Abraham, founder of cold email agency Leadbird, joins the show for a deep dive into what’s working right now in the fast-changing world of email marketing. With over 400 clients and millions of emails sent monthly, Nick shares tactical insights from the frontlines — from deliverability strategies to AI usage and cold calling.
The conversation covers the recent Apollo crackdown, the shift in data sourcing, and how agencies can safeguard infrastructure to avoid total shutdowns. Nick also unpacks the importance of validating your offer, tips for scaling cold outreach, and the resurrection of cold calling as a powerful channel when paired with smart automation.
Timestamps
00:00 – Why cold email is still a top channel
00:39 – State of cold email: "bloody ocean" tactics
02:12 – Apollo’s recent changes & implications
05:00 – Data sourcing alternatives (ListKit, Sales Nav scraping)
07:12 – Clay’s rise & how to enrich leads
10:25 – EDU/Microsoft panel loopholes and risks
14:00 – The right infra mix: Google, Microsoft, SMTP
18:00 – Cost breakdown for 10K cold emails
20:00 – Who cold email works for — and who it doesn’t
23:35 – Cold email templates that work today
28:01 – Cold calling revival & voicemail strategy
33:00 – Smart personalization that stands out
37:00 – Overuse of AI: when it backfires
41:50 – Volume vs optimization: when to scale
47:00 – Warm-up pools, deliverability myths & final thoughts
Key Points
- Apollo Crackdown: Apollo recently slashed its free plan from 10,000 to 100 leads/month, killing off common scraping strategies. Agencies must now diversify data sources.
- Email Infrastructure Strategy: Nick recommends splitting accounts evenly across Google, Microsoft, and SMTP providers (like MailReef), using separate tenants for each domain to reduce risk.
- Top Tools Mentioned: Smartlead, Instantly, LeadMagic, Salesfinity (for cold calling), Clay, HyperType, ListKit.
- Cold Email Templates That Work: Short emails with a bold subject line, a clearly stated pain point, social proof, and a clear CTA. Two-step sequences are outperforming long follow-ups.
- AI in Cold Email: Use AI for variable enrichment (like local restaurants or recent promotions) — but not for full email writing. Over-automation feels robotic and gets ignored.
- Cold Calling Rebirth: Combining parallel dialers, voicemails, and email follow-ups creates a high-performing outbound flywheel. Nick’s simple pitch script: “Can I get 30 seconds, or tell me to kick rocks?”
- Warm-Up Pools Controversy: Instantly and Smartlead warm-up pools have downsides. Use them carefully and always monitor bounce rates.
Who Should Use Cold Email?
✔ SaaS, agencies, and service businesses with high LTVs ($5K+)
✔ Founders with a unique, compelling offer
✔ Companies with a working sales process & CRM follow-up
✘ Commodity offers (e.g., generic e-comm marketing) with no clear differentiation
Notable Quotes
"Don’t build a pricing model on a hack. It’s a matter of time until it breaks."
"Most people overthink deliverability — bad offers are the real issue."
"You can get 0.8% replies or 0% if your inbox gets shut down — choose wisely."
Guest Links:
https://www.leadbird.io/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nick-abraham
https://x.com/NickAbraham12
In the Pit with Cody Schneider | Marketing | Growth | Startups