The Lawfare Podcast Lawfare Daily: What’s Behind Russian Incursions Into NATO
Sep 23, 2025
Minna Ålander, an expert on Nordic-Baltic security, joins Mykhailo Soldatenko, a Harvard scholar specializing in international law, to dissect recent Russian air incursions into NATO territory. They discuss whether NATO's responses have been proportional and the legal implications of these actions. Key points include the intentionality behind airspace violations, the high thresholds for NATO obligations, and the U.S. government's hesitancy in response. Their insights provide a deep dive into the complexities of military strategy and legal frameworks in the current geopolitical climate.
AI Snips
Chapters
Transcript
Episode notes
NATO Followed Protocols In Poland
- NATO's immediate response to the Polish drone incursion followed established protocols and used deployed NATO air policing assets.
- Minna Ålander judged the response proportional given most drones were cheap ISR/decoy types and immediate civilian risk was limited.
Field Cheap Anti-Drone Defenses
- Deploy cost-effective anti-drone defenses to avoid using expensive fighter jets and missiles against cheap UAVs.
- Minna Ålander urged faster fielding of dedicated anti-drone systems at likely border points.
Evidence Suggests Intentional Testing
- Multiple indicators (direction, number, type) point to intentionality rather than accident for the Poland incursion.
- Ålander argued Russia likely tested NATO's response and specifically noted European allies, not the U.S., reacted first.