The full-stack PM | Anuj Rathi (Swiggy, Jupiter Money, Flipkart)

Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

Why won't they do? Exploring setup issues and org design

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Why won't they do? The reasons vary, but often it's a setup issue. Many problems arise from leaders not fully considering factors like OKRs and organizational design. A book called Team Topologies explores this connection. In fact, products themselves can reveal an organization's design. Not doing, not being set up to do, and not having the skills are ways to measure performance, akin to a product manager's performance review.

Anuj Rathi is the Chief Product and Marketing Officer at Jupiter Money, where he leads product management, marketing, design, growth, and analytics. Before Jupiter Money, Anuj served as the Senior Vice President of Revenue and Growth at Swiggy, VP of Product at SnapDeal, a Senior PM at Walmart Labs and the first-ever PM at Flipkart. He’s also one of the most beloved and respected product leaders in India. In this episode, we discuss:

• How product management is different in India

• How to rethink your approach to new users

• How Anuj operationalizes the “working backwards” framework

• Why Anuj thinks PMs should be more full-stack than they are

• How to use Anuj’s “4BB” framework to get better at product strategy and prioritization

• Advice on developing innovative roadmap ideas

• The three essential skills of a successful PM

• Three reasons why leadership fails

• Why OKRs don’t work in marketplaces

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-full-stack-pm-anuj-rathi-swiggy-jupiter-money-flipkart/

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Where to find Anuj Rathi:

• X: https://twitter.com/anujrathi

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anujrathi1

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Anuj’s background

(04:28) How product differs in India

(08:34) When modern product thinking started to gain traction in India

(14:01) How Anuj thinks about new-user experiences

(15:07) Scott Belsky’s “lazy, vain, and selfish” framework

(19:59) Why PMs must understand category consumers

(22:30) Anuj’s philosophy on the PM job

(23:59) How Anuj applies the working-backwards framework

(28:36) The importance of FAQs

(30:10) The full-stack PM mindset

(33:06) Anuj’s “show don’t tell” framework

(36:19) How to use the show-don’t-tell framework

(39:14) The impact of using this framework

(41:27) Anuj’s “4BB framework” for product strategy

(48:59) Contrarian corner

(50:49) Anuj’s “framework of 3” for great PMs

(52:34) How to develop grit and influence

(54:00) Three reasons why leaders fail

(56:21) AI corner

(57:51) Lessons from building a successful marketplace

(1:02:19) How to balance and maintain stability on all sides of a marketplace

(1:07:48) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• MakeMyTrip: https://www.makemytrip.com/

• Shaadi.com: https://www.shaadi.com/

• Bharat Matrimony: https://www.bharatmatrimony.com/

• Flipkart: https://www.flipkart.com/

• Ola: https://www.olacabs.com/mobile

• Swiggy: https://www.swiggy.com/

• Jio: https://www.jio.com/

• UPI: http://cashlessindia.gov.in/upi.html

• The First 15 Seconds by Scott Belsky: https://medium.com/positiveslope/the-first-15-seconds-9590d7dabc

• Jupiter: https://jupiter.money/

• How to get better at influence: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-get-better-at-influence#

• Working Backwards: https://www.workingbackwards.com/

• Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World: https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized-World/dp/0735214484

• In Search of Greatness on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Search-Greatness-Wayne-Gretzky/dp/B07P5X99P5

• Team Topologies: Organizing Business and Technology Teams for Fast Flow: https://www.amazon.com/Team-Topologies-Organizing-Business-Technology/dp/1942788819

• Conway’s Law: https://www.atlassian.com/blog/teamwork/what-is-conways-law-acmi

• Lessons from scaling Spotify: The science of product, taking risky bets, and how AI is already impacting the future of music | Gustav Söderström (Co-President, CPO, and CTO at Spotify):

https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-from-scaling-spotify-the-science-of-product-taking-risky-bets-and-how-ai-is-already-impac/

• Taobao: https://world.taobao.com/

• Alibaba: https://offer.alibaba.com/

• Working Backwards: https://www.amazon.com/Working-Backwards-PB/dp/1529033845

• How Brands Grow: What Marketers Don't Know: https://www.amazon.com/How-Brands-Grow-What-Marketers/dp/0195573560

• The Luxury Strategy: Break the Rules of Marketing to Build Luxury Brands: https://www.amazon.com/Luxury-Strategy-Break-Marketing-Brands/dp/0749464917

• The Office on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/stream-tv/the-office

• Rise: https://www.risescience.com/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.