#594: Cal Newport and Tim Ferriss Revisit "The 4-Hour Workweek" (Plus: The Allure and The Void of Remote Work, Unsustainable Behaviors, Burning Out, The Cult of Productivity, and More)
The Tim Ferriss Show
The Alternate Hypothesis
We have my original hypothesis, which is there' this culture of overwork that came out of silicon valley. But what you're saying here is the other, i think, competing hypothesis, which was maybe even more ritim and i just wrote a whole book about this. It was the tools, and that when you give people always on low friction digital communication, there's weird dynamics that occur. And i note, for example, an your two thousand seven sort of coming out south by southwest talk, south byt south west, intractive talks. You need strategies and rules, maybe even technological constraints, so that you don't work all the time. We look at where we are
Brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs recruitment platform with 770M+ users, Vuori comfortable and durable performance apparel, and Athletic Greens all-in-one nutritional supplement.
Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out the routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life.
In this episode, past podcast guest Cal Newport interviews me for an article he ended up writing for The New Yorker titled “Revisiting ‘The 4-Hour Workweek’: How Tim Ferriss’s 2007 manifesto anticipated our current moment of professional upheaval.”
Who is Cal? Cal Newport (calnewport.com) is an associate professor of computer science at Georgetown University who previously earned his PhD from MIT. His scholarship focuses on the theory of distributed systems, while his general-audience writing explores intersections of culture and technology.
Cal is the author of seven books, including, most recently, Deep Work, Digital Minimalism, and A World Without Email. He is also a contributing writer for The New Yorker and the host of the Deep Questions podcast.
You can find my interview with Cal at tim.blog/calnewport, and you can find the 2007 talk at SXSW that launched everything at tim.blog/sxsw.
Please enjoy!
This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 by Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system.
Right now, Athletic Greens is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product.
*
This episode is also brought to you by Vuori clothing! Vuori is a new and fresh perspective on performance apparel, perfect if you are sick and tired of traditional, old workout gear. Everything is designed for maximum comfort and versatility so that you look and feel as good in everyday life as you do working out.
Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at VuoriClothing.com/Tim. Not only will you receive 20% off your first purchase, but you’ll also enjoy free shipping on any US orders over $75 and free returns.
*
This episode is also brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. Whether you are looking to hire now for a critical role or thinking about needs that you may have in the future, LinkedIn Jobs can help. LinkedIn screens candidates for the hard and soft skills you’re looking for and puts your job in front of candidates looking for job opportunities that match what you have to offer.
Using LinkedIn’s active community of more than 770 million professionals worldwide, LinkedIn Jobs can help you find and hire the right person faster. When your business is ready to make that next hire, find the right person with LinkedIn Jobs. And now, you can post a job for free. Just visit LinkedIn.com/Tim.
*
Some of the first cracks in my post-Princeton life that hinted at the unsustainable nature of Silicon Valley workaholic culture and led me toward a realization that The 4-Hour Workweek might be a book worth writing. [07:36]
The fatal flaw in my first startup that ensured I wouldn’t be able to easily sell it. [17:22]
A snapshot of Silicon Valley in the early 2000s: a prototyping and testing ground for new technologies and a hotbed of hustling. [22:16]
Cal says I mentioned email four times in the opening six minutes of my first South by Southwest talk. In retrospect, what bigger problems did this portend, and how was my approach somewhat transgressive, considering the audience? [26:44]
Defying the cult of productivity to be more effective than efficient with the 80/20 principle (aka Pareto’s law). [39:43]
On slow productivity and playing your own game while understanding the rules by which other people play theirs.[44:33]
How the launch of this podcast was, in a sense, a reexamination of what my own game was after working on The 4-Hour Chef turned out to be more a labor of labor than love. [47:57]
My mindset going into that first South by Southwest speech in 2007 and how I tried to make the pain points of efficiency relatable rather than presenting them as judgment against my go-getting, startup-hustling audience. [50:41]
If prioritizing your own self-care inconveniences other people from time to time, so be it. (To the people pleasers in the audience, please reread that last sentence to yourself a little louder until it sticks.) [53:50]
After the South by Southwest speech, what was the general reception like? What points seemed to resonate most with people? [56:44]
How a mutual friend put concepts presented in The 4-Hour Workweek to work and changed his own life, how some of those concepts that were radical when the book was published 15 years ago are now considered commonplace, and which concepts I hope continue to gain momentum. [1:00:56]
How the COVID-19 pandemic suddenly made the work-disrupting scenarios posited in The 4-Hour Workweek viable alternatives to the status quo rather than intangible, impossible thought experiments, though some challenges remain. [1:06:40]
Pop culture references to The 4-Hour Workweek and common misinterpretations of its primary tenets that come from casual skimming and second-hand sources. [1:10:38]
Digging deeper, why do so many readers who pick up the bestselling productivity and time management books seem to miss the points they’re really trying to make? [1:15:57]
Cal’s optimistic parting thoughts that society is finally catching up with what The 4-Hour Workweek was trying to convey. [1:20:58]
*
For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.
For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsors.
Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday.
For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.
Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.
Follow Tim:
Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss
Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss
YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss
Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferriss
Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, and many more.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts
