Go From Pain and Gain Understanding to Context and Outcomes

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Bob Moesta is the co-creator of the Jobs To Be Done (JTBD) framework, a close collaborator of Clay Christensen, and CEO and founder of The Re-Wired Group. He has helped launch more than 3,500 new products, services, and businesses and built and sold several startups himself. He is also a fellow at the Clayton Christensen Institute and a guest lecturer at the Harvard Business School, MIT Sloan School of Entrepreneurship, and Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management. In this episode, we discuss:

• What Snickers and Milky Way can teach us about JTBD

• The various flavors of the JTBD framework

• Best practices for implementing the framework

• Advice on conducting interviews for B2B vs. B2C customers

• Common mistakes people make when implementing JTBD

• When not to use it

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-jtbd-bob-moesta

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Where to find Bob Moesta:

• Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/bmoesta

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobmoesta/

• Website: http://www.therewiredgroup.com/

• Podcast: https://pca.st/gg6goo1n

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Bob’s background

(04:04) A simple explanation of the Jobs To Be Done framework

(07:29) Struggling moments and demand

(09:51) Understanding the context behind pain points

(11:14) Reducing friction in the sales process

(14:46) How Autobooks improved their buying process and 4x’ed conversion

(16:52) The six phases of the buying process

(18:30) The JTBD interview process

(21:55) How Bob’s TBI affected his reading/writing and how he is able to write books

(22:02) Why people switch companies

(27:18) Tips for JTBD interviewing

(30:07) Why you should not have a discussion guide

(32:48) The danger of looking at the customer through the product

(33:53) First steps in applying the JTBD framework

(36:25) Signs people are ready for a change

(37:43) Bob’s “layers of language”

(40:15) Examples of companies with a broad adoption of JTBD

(43:59) The different flavors of JTBD and common mistakes to avoid when implementing it

(48:19) Bob’s work with Clay Christensen on JTBD theory

(51:05) When not to use JTBD

(53:40) Common misconceptions about the framework

(55:55) What compelled Bob to spend so much of his life on JTBD

(58:07) Three big takeaways

(59:07) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Jason Fried on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-fried/

• Des Traynor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/destraynor

• Southern New Hampshire University: https://degrees.snhu.edu/

• Paul LeBlanc on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-j-leblanc-6a17749/

• Demand-Side Sales 101: Stop Selling and Help Your Customers Make Progress: https://www.amazon.com/Demand-Side-Sales-101-Customers-Progress/dp/1544509987

• Autobooks: https://www.autobooks.co/

• Intercom: https://www.intercom.com/

• Zendesk: https://www.zendesk.com/

• HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/

• The Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University: https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/

• Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/

• Michael Horn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelbhorn/

• Ethan Bernstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanbernstein/

• Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as If Your Life Depended on It: https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805

• William Edwards Deming on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

• Basecamp: https://basecamp.com/

• Sriram and Aarthi on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/hot-takes-and-techno-optimism-from-techs-top-power-couple-sriram-and-aarthi/

• Genichi Taguchi: https://www.qualitygurus.com/genichi-taguchi/

• Tony Ulwick on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyulwick/

• The Clayton Christensen Institute on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/clayton-christensen-institute/

• Shape Up: https://basecamp.com/shapeup

• The End of Average: Unlocking Our Potential by Embracing What Makes Us Different: https://www.amazon.com/End-Average-Unlocking-Potential-Embracing/dp/0062358375

• The Big Bang Theory on TBS: https://www.tbs.com/shows/the-big-bang-theory/watch-now

• Oppenheimer: https://www.oppenheimermovie.com/

• Kyota massage chairs at Costco: https://www.costco.com/massage-chairs-cushions.html?brand=Kyota&refine=%7C%7CBrand_attr-Kyota

• Paul Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pauladams/

• Matt Hodges on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattnhodges/

• Andrew Glaser on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glaserandrew/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

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