
Some Work, All Play
Five to ten topics, sometimes about running, with lots of love and enthusiasm and science. We dig deep into training, races, studies, pop culture, and much more! With Megan Roche, M.D. and David Roche!
Latest episodes

24 snips
Feb 27, 2024 • 1h 37min
195. Double Workouts, Running as a Power Sport, Megan's Overall Win, Big Alta Races, and New Mental Health Study!
Topics include double workouts for athletes, a new mental health study on exercise for depression, unique approaches to injury healing, Megan's win at a half marathon, running as a power sport, a new policy on eating disorders in climbing, shoe durability study, advice for starting a podcast, S2 testing in the NFL, and more entertaining topics!

Feb 20, 2024 • 1h 31min
194. World Record Training Study, Heart Rate Monitors, Sports Bras, Iron and Lactate, and AI Thoughts!
We glugged some sugar with coffee and cream for this awesome episode! The main training topic was a new study breaking down the training of the 24-hour world-record holder. It gave us an excuse to talk about the trajectory of ultra training, and how we're in the midst of a fundamental shift in the sport at all levels.
We also talked about a cool study on sports bra tightness and breathing patterns. The results were pretty stunning, and it may have implications for chest-strap heart rate monitors too. Plus, the researchers gave us the chance for lots of bra jokes. Not all heroes wear capes. Some wear sports bras that are just the right size.
And that was just the tip of a topics iceberg! Other topics: early morning wake-ups, our initial thoughts on arm-band heart rate, Megan's thoughts of stepping into the unknown at the Canyons 100k, a study on iron infusions that has implications for how we think about iron and lactate transport, a follow-up on last week's THC discussion, the U.S. Snowshoe Championships...without any snow, drug testing and compassion, recent breakthroughs in AI and where we think it's going, a typo that will make you feel better about your mistakes, and hot takes.
Stick around to the end, because the episode ends with a listener corner that will have you glugging from a fire hose of inspiration!
For a weekly bonus episode (and weekly science post, plus merch), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! HUZZAH!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
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Precision Hydration discount site: https://visit.pfandh.com/someworkallplay

Feb 13, 2024 • 1h 36min
193. Black Canyon 100k and Why Ultras Will Never Be The Same, Big Carb Fueling, and Taking Chances!
We just got back from a joyful and intense weekend at the Black Canyon 100k, arguably the most competitive ultra on US soil! Endurance sports are in the midst of a fundamental shift in what's possible, from the winners to the final finishers. This year's Black Canyon was a mind-blowing demonstration of how the game is changing, with tons of lessons that apply to all goals!
Topics we discussed: why the sport has taken such a big leap in the last few years, how race dynamics have changed, the distinction of process v. results in an athletic trajectory, where big-carb fueling comes in, training thoughts, and so much more. We just witnessed a race that will go down in history as part of the first wave of a performance and competition revolution. Prepare to be inspired, awed, and motivated to slurp some carbs!
And that was just the start! We touched on tons of our favorite things this week. Other topics: a BIG race announcement, a BIG plate of tater tots, pre-race goal-setting, impostor syndrome, aid station approaches, hydration strategy, wrecking Freetrail Fantasy picks, 2 new studies on THC and athletic performance, a doping positive from the Trail World Champion, a tragic loss for the running world, and hot takes.
This one ends with a listener corner email that will bring you to the happiest tears. GET IT QUEENS!
For a weekly bonus episode (and weekly science post, plus merch), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! HUZZAH!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Try Athletic Greens: drinkAG1.com/swap
Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP")
Precision Hydration discount site: https://visit.pfandh.com/someworkallplay

Feb 6, 2024 • 1h 37min
192. Olympic Trials Hot Takes, How To Fuel in Races, The Enhanced Games (ugh), and Supershoe Data!
It was the ultimate celebration episode, on a high from watching the Olympic Marathon Trials! We talked about some of our favorite storylines from the most exciting race on US soil: training partners finishing together (and our conspiracy theory), the next big star is born for female marathoners, an Olympian who walked onto her D2 college team, and so much more.
Then we had some of the coolest data ever: internal stats on race day fueling from 60 case studies of successful races. Most field studies find that athletes grossly undershoot the science-backed recommendations for calories and hydration. Understanding the averages and offsets is a massive opportunity for most athletes to enhance their performance. Slurp slurp.
And this one was absolutely PACKED with our favorite discussions! Other topics: new data on supershoes and how we suggest using them in training, Megan's experience with ketones, a heart-warming follow-up on the Chipotle Challenge, why we are so disturbed by The Enhanced Games, running and health, heart rate variation across athletes, the Zwift treadmill, and hot takes.
For a weekly bonus episode (and weekly science post, plus merch), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! HUZZAH!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Try Athletic Greens: drinkAG1.com/swap
Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP")
Precision Hydration discount site: https://visit.pfandh.com/someworkallplay

Jan 30, 2024 • 1h 28min
191. UTMB Strikes Back and What's Next, Olympic Trials Picks, Our Favorite Coaches, and Body Image!
We rolled up our shorts to their full upright and locked positions for this spicy episode! A big topic was the final installment in our trilogy of updates on tensions surrounding UTMB. The letter sent by Kilian Jornet and Zach Miller to fellow pros added fuel to a fire that started at the grassroots level, finally leading to a response from UTMB. We provide some context that will be fascinating whether you're interested in trail running or just the business side of things, before coming to an ultimately optimistic conclusion. Hopefully, the UTMB empire has the best interests of the community at heart... and they aren't building a Death Star.
While our shorts were rolled up, we didn't waste the opportunity to let some big opinions and emotions out into the world! Other topics: our picks for the Olympic Marathon Trials, great health news, grief and athletics, the best athletic news of the week, cross training and climbing in running, the booming business of trail running, our favorite coaches, studies on leadership, what we look for in leaders, the bonkers Chipotle Challenge, the seismic shifts in the media landscape, body image and confidence, and hot takes.
This episode is like the best burrito. It's shockingly stuffed and ready to party!
For a weekly bonus episode (and weekly science post, plus merch), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! HUZZAH!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Try Athletic Greens: drinkAG1.com/swap
Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP")
Precision Hydration discount link: pfandh.com (code "SWAP")

Jan 23, 2024 • 1h 32min
190. Optimizing Testosterone Levels, Lower Mileage Training, Breathing and Stress, and US Cross Country!
We chugged some chocolate whole milk to fuel this amazing episode! The main training topic was on why testosterone levels are relevant for all endurance athletes. While individuals have different genetic set-points for testosterone, studies on men and women show that training and fueling interventions can change baseline levels. Those changes can be positive, leading to more energy and better performance... or negative, possibly contributing to fatigue in training and life. We break down the complicated science, along with what athletes can do to optimize their levels safely and legally.
And this episode was stuffed with the best discussions! Other topics: a study on caffeine and deception, lower-mileage training that features more cross training, Allie Ostrander's inspiring story of qualifying for Team USA in cross country, Cooper Teare's nose strip, breathing exercises and heart rate variability, a breaking-news study on performance impacts from strategic low-carb approaches, the prevalence of drug use in endurance athletes, our obsession with Detroit Lions coach Dan Campbell, Jack Scott's triumph at the Spine Race, and our appreciation of David Goggins.
We also have a listener hot take that will change the way you think about hot dogs and hydration. Oscar Meyer is coming for our sports drinks?!
For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter, plus merch), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! HUZZAH!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Try Athletic Greens: drinkAG1.com/swap
Subscribe to Allie's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@allie_ostrander
Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP")
Precision Hydration discount link: pfandh.com (code "SWAP")

Jan 16, 2024 • 1h 30min
189. UTMB Boycott News, Zone 1 v. Zone 2, Epigenetics of Endurance, Blood Values, and UROY Rankings!
We had fire (and iron) flowing through our veins for this awesome episode! There is a big development in the UTMB controversy: reports that legends Kilian Jornet and Zach Miller sent a letter to some of the best athletes in the world considering a boycott of this year's races. We talk about what we think it means through the lens of negotiation theory. This shift in leverage could be a turning point in the UTMB drama!
We also discussed emerging evidence that endurance training fundamentally alters long-term gene and protein expression. Combined with studies on trained v. untrained twins, new science may give the ultimate justification for consistent endurance: we can fundamentally alter how our physiology acts, 10 minutes at a time.
And this episode was jam-packed with our favorite subjects! Other topics: why it's Tough B season, Megan's big life decision and next steps, blood values for health and performance, testosterone and SHBG, choosing running surfaces in training, Zone 1 v. Zone 2 for easy training, our spicy feelings on Ultra Runner of the Year voting, and hot takes.
In Hot Takes, David has an opinion on temperature and wind chill that is so wrong that it's almost impressive. Can a Hot Take be awful enough that it's actually cold? Tune in to find out.
For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter, plus merch), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! HUZZAH!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Try Athletic Greens: drinkAG1.com/swap
Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP")
Precision Hydration discount link: pfandh.com (code "SWAP")

21 snips
Jan 9, 2024 • 1h 29min
188. Tempo Runs Explained, Men vs. Women Mileage, Answering Listener Questions, and Debating AI in Medicine!
Discussions on tempo runs, men vs. women training mileage, NSAIDs impact, listener questions, AI in medicine debate, writing a sci-fi novel, threshold training tips, importance of big lunches, lactate monitors, creatine post-COVID, and hot takes

Jan 2, 2024 • 1h 30min
187. New Protein Science Breakthrough, 2024 Predictions, Continuous Biomarker Monitoring, and Sleep Deception!
We are coming in hot with some big 2024 energy! The main topic was a deeper science corner breakdown of the new study that challenges conventional wisdom on protein consumption. This research could change how you think about daily fueling, with potential benefits for adaptation and recovery. We geek out on the methodology, featuring an isotope-tagged cow, researchers screaming at participants as they weightlift to failure, and protein shakes with the consistency of sludge.
And the new-year excitement applied to so many cool discussions! Other topics: resolutions (revenge!), a bonkers study that lied to participants about their sleep duration, our pain cave weightlifting, our subsequent injuries, 2024 predictions, the exciting world of continuous biomarker monitoring, how the science may apply to lactate and estrogen, super shoes on trails, the power of Zone 1 training, a bold prediction involving UTMB, and hot takes.
2024 is going to be the best year ever! We wish that all of your metaphorical cows may be tagged with isotope tracers. Praise Dauwalter.
For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter, plus merch), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! HUZZAH!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Try Athletic Greens: drinkAG1.com/swap
Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP")
Precision Hydration discount link: https://visit.pfandh.com/swap

Dec 26, 2023 • 1h 19min
186. The Best Holiday Episode! Secrets, Science, and Stories!
Welcome to a very special holiday episode! We started with our thoughts on a new study on protein intake that challenges everything we previously thought about protein metabolism. It's one of our favorite studies of all time, and it's destined to reshape the field of nutrition science! But the bulk of the episode was reading from "secrets" sent in by listeners. Some were on athletics and running; many others were about different things entirely. We think these secrets provide a beautiful window into what we're all dealing with in life, and hopefully it makes you all feel a bit better about existence.
We're talking running, relationships, confidential crushes, bodily fluids, and so much more! Get ready for lots of laughs (and maybe some tears), before we finish it off with the greatest love story from a listener.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS! We have so much gratitude for you all. For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter, plus merch), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! HUZZAH!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Try Athletic Greens: drinkAG1.com/swap
Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP")
Precision Hydration discount link: https://visit.pfandh.com/swap
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