Apptivate: App Marketing Explained

Today’s guest opens up about her first professional work experience as a mobile marketer working for a gaming company. At the time, she didn’t realize the level of stress she was experiencing was not “normal.” Now, as the Associate Manager of Digital Marketing at Reebok, Jocelyn Paz reflects on how Rebook is doing a good job creating open lines of communication for employees to have honest conversations about mental health. Questions Jocelyn Answered in this Episode:What made you want to go in a different direction with your marketing career? How did you approach the experience of burnout? What helped you cope or reduce burnout?Did you find yourself accepting and normalizing having mental breakdowns once a week or was there a point where you said ‘this is not normal’?How did you create boundaries you set in place in order to take care of yourself? How can organizations be doing to improve communication at work around stress and breaking down its stigma? How has working from home played a role in burnout at work? Timestamp:4:23 Joceyln’s background5:56 Working for a product and brand you believe in9:00 An excessive workload? 11:45 Justifying burnout, blurring boundaries12:30 Perfectionism and compassion15:55 Open lines of communication18:23 The blurred line when working remotely21:12 What “productivity” really meansQuotes:(10:32-10:44) “To put it simply it’s like you’re getting pressure from two sides. You’re getting pressure from one thing that you can’t control, which is the company. And, you’re getting pressure from yourself internally.”(11:45-12:18) “At first I tried to justify it but saying, ‘You don’t know as much as you should, you’re not handling it well.’ I started making excuses saying, ‘This will pass, as soon as you learn more you’ll be able to handle it better.’ But as time went on, I realized that saying that to myself was sort of just making excuses and what I was really doing was just blurring those boundaries. I had a complete lack of boundaries between me and the work that I was doing, and what I’d say ‘yes’ to.”Mentioned in this Episode:Jocelyn Paz’s LinkedIn

Today’s guest is Shan Huang, the Senior Applied Scientist at Zalando, a multinational e-commerce platform for shoes and fashion. Shan is also the co-founder of the German-Chinese Association for Artificial Intelligence, a nonprofit advancing the exchange of education, research, and public resources between Germany and China in the field of AI.Questions Shan Answered in this Episode:Can you give me an explanation of what an experimentation platform is? What is an example of how it’s used? How do you set the limitations? How do you define what can be experimented? What are the biggest challenges to building such a platform? If you could go back in time and could give yourself one hint or remove one obstacle in building this platform, what would that be?Are you running automated optimization a/b tests? Are there any tricks to increase the efficiency or decrease the runtime of the experimentation? How do you support people knowing what experiments to run, what’s interesting, possible to test, etc? What was the reason for creating the experimentation platform?Timestamp:2:53 The many use cases of Zalando’s experimentation platform 6:45 Putting together the right team10:19 What’s important in the beginning11:27 Hypothesis testing methodology13:14 Adaptive experimentation15:03 Methods for improving experimentation efficiency 18:44 Setting up a process for running a/b tests 23:04 Power to the product teamQuotes:(6:50-6:57) “I think one of the biggest challenges is that building this kind of platform requires a team of different experts in different domains.”(10:31-10:56) “In the beginning it’s about providing infrastructure and also helping our stakeholders with other teams learn a/b testing, understand a/b testing, because statistics is sometimes a very confusing thing--confidence interval, significance--it’s not so easy to explain. And I think it might be helpful to get a solid groundwork on this stuff.”Mentioned in this Episode:Shan HuangZalando“Experimentation Platform at Zalando: Part 1 - Evolution” blog postGCAAI

Yoann Pavy has started a new role as Vice President of Marketing at Diem. Previously, he was the Head of Digital Marketing at Depop. He’s recently launched his own podcast, Digital Marketing Finesse. Yoann is based in London.Questions Yoann Answered in this Episode:How do you source sneakers to consumers?How was the marketing strategy at Depop developed and the level of success you saw from it?How did Depop’s UGC perform across channels? Were some better than others?What was your process for going to get more of this kind of content? How do you identify who’s a good candidate, and what was the process from there?What are some of the risks or challenges when going through this process?Can you tell us what is “Digital Marketing Finesse”?Timestamp:2:51 Yoann’s background: from engineering to marketing14:15 What does Laced do?18:00 Depop’s street filming creative strategy24:04 Bad UGC vs Good UGC25:19 Making it native for each channel28:40 Depop’s process for developing its UGC29:58 Challenges33:01 Digital Marketing FinesseQuotes:(21:57-22:26) “Going back to the marketing strategy side, it’s like the marketing 101 that says testimonials are the key. Now you’re in b2b, you want testimonials. You’re in b2c, you want testimonials. Everyone talks about testimonials like the bread and butter of marketing to sell your product. So, we kind of made Gen Z testimonials, the new version of them—they were very raw, they were very real, and completely unscripted.”(24:32-24:50) “So it’s like really keeping the truth of [user-generated content] is I think the key ingredient. And I do think that it almost doesn’t matter what the market base is about; it could be about anything. As long as you put the people using it at the forefront, it’s going to be real.”Mentioned in this Episode:Yoann Pavy’s LinkedInYoann Pavy’s Instagram: @yoannpavvyDiemLacedDepopDigital Marketing Finesse Podcast

Liz Emery is the Senior Director of Mobile and Ad Tech Solutions at Tinuiti, the largest independent performance marketing agency across Google, Amazon, Facebook, and beyond. She oversees their mobile executions on strategy, ASO, including A/B testing through all of their user acquisition channels as well as lifecycle email marketing.Questions Liz Answered in this Episode:When Apple announced the data privacy changes that were coming with iOS14, what was your reaction to that?In your opinion, what are the forces driving these changes?How are your clients feeling about this, and are you see a large disparity in how clients are dealing with these changes?Is there any advantage to the “waiting and seeing” approach?What are the proactive marketers doing to set themselves up for success in this new paradigm?Why do you feel that SkAdNetwork won’t be enough to give you the attribution that you’re looking for?What is a conversion value schema? How are smart marketers putting up their conversion value schema?Timestamp:2:35 Liz’s background5:18 What is Tinuiti?7:29 Why Liz enjoys the agency life10:07 The reaction to Apple’s announcement12:45 The fear is real14:50 Proactive strategies to be prepared20:23 SkAdNetwork & data privacy changes22:09 Conversion value schema28:00 Our role as marketers with the new normalQuotes:(12:07-12:15) “I think the four forces at work are people, regulations, and browser and device-level changes, all driven by government and big tech.”(16:58-17:15) “I don’t think you have to be like, ‘Oh, my core media strategy is wrong. Everything I’ve been doing for the last couple of years is wrong. I need to stop spending x, y, z.’ That’s not what I’m saying. You do need to keep spending with those consistent channels, but just be cognizant that the kind of targeting and the results you’re going to get are going to shift.”Mentioned in this Episode:Liz Emery’s LinkedInTinuitiTinuiti’s Privacy Hub

Jon Lau is the Senior Director of Growth at Weee!, a company delivering Asian & Hispanic groceries with zero service fees and free delivery. Previous to the e-grocer app, Jon hailed from a background in banking and then mobile marketing for gaming companies, like DraftKings, Smule, and Playsonic.   Questions Jon Answered in this Episode:Can you tell us about what Weee! does and who you serve?What would you attribute the company’s jump from being valued at $600 million last year to $2.8 billion now? What do you attribute that growth to?Have you found that the general consumer is now using Weee! or is it predominantly people from the cultures you serve?What is your creative strategy? Is it mostly focused on educating a consumer base? Celebrating heritage?How do you establish social validation for your brand?How do you go about telling a story about your brand on platforms like Facebook and display?Timestamp:3:06 Jon’s background: gaming to e-grocer10:46 What’s is Weee!12:27 Weee!’s explosive growth14:45 Growing the second-generation Asian and Hispanic user base 16:19 Creative strategy: cultural heritage, food discovery, education18:00 Establishing social validation for a brand21:51 Telling your brand story Quotes:(12:31-12:55) “It goes to show the grocery potential of different ethnicities in the U.S. So, specifically here, we’re talking about the Asian and Hispanic population in the U.S., which by and large I would say, depending on where you live, can be relatively underserved. And these are populations that have the wallet share that can actually make the purchases, they just don’t have something nearby.”(18:29-18:55) “There’s this conception that it’s ‘too good to be true’ type feeling. And so, we realized this was an issue. And at the same time, we actually found out that the most common search phrase for Weee! was, ‘Is Weee! legit?’ And then we were like, ‘Okay, this is a completely different challenge we have to tackle because it’s no longer about reaching the audience--we’re reaching them--but people are skeptical about whether this service is real.”Mentioned in this Episode:Jon Lau’s LinkedInWeee!

Jayne Pimentel is the Senior Director of Marketing and Growth at Electronic Arts. Electronic Arts develops and delivers games, content, and online services for Internet-connected consoles, mobile devices, and personal computers. EA has more than 300 million registered players around the world.Questions Jayne Answered in this Episode:How did you get started in gaming? Your dad was a big influence on your affinity for gaming and the decisions you’ve made in your career. Can you talk a little bit about that? How did you grow from your experience getting laid off? Did you have any mentors who helped you along the way in your career? Is there a common theme in the advice women come to you for?What is the worst piece of advice that you’ve ever received? The best advice?How do you help develop a culture that embraces failure and learning for your team?How do you manage your work-life balance? Timestamp:1:43 Jayne’s history and love of video games5:40 Dad’s influence on Jayne’s career in gaming8:08 The light from dark times in following her passions14:22 Jayne’s mentors along the way16:18 Words of wisdom for women in mobile gaming20:05 Worst and best advice Jayne ever received27:07 Developing a culture of embracing failure and learning30:30 Work-life balance33:05 Jayne’s advice to women starting their careersQuotes:(10:25-10:42) “I fell into my own in terms of mobile games. I went to Machine Zone and I fell back in love with mobile games. I fell back in love with the work as well. Performance marketing, all that comes with, really, is my passion and my skillset. So it’s nice I can combine those things.”(12:13-12:42) “I want power. That’s a big thing for me, the ability to influence and the ability to support women in our industry. And so, that is what my passion has morphed into. It’s not just mobile games as a category but the people within mobile games, and specifically the women because I’ve seen the shit that we have to deal with and I’ve been part of that. I show up every day as if it was the person I wish I had when I started my career.” (17:47-18:21) “For women, I feel like we hold ourselves to such a high standard in terms of we let bad days define us and we let bad moments define us. Even feedback. I ask for feedback all the time and I take everyone’s feedback as truth to me as a person and I never question feedback. I’m always like, ‘yep, that’s right, I was an asshole. Yep, I should do that.’ And in fact, you don’t have to. You don’t have to agree with all of the feedback. You can listen to it, but you don’t have to wear it.” Mentioned in this Episode:Jayne Pimentel’s LinkedInElectronic Arts Inc.Machine Zone

Michelle Lerner is the Director of Business Development at Branch. Branch provides cross-platform linking and attribution solutions to the world's leading digital brands.Questions Michelle Answered in this Episode:How has the role of men and women in the mobile tech space evolved since you started your career? Do you feel more confident and comfortable vocalizing yourself now because you’re in a more senior position or because of the work environment? Did you have a mentor that helped you to feel this way or was it something else?As a manager, how do you empower your direct reports? What do you think we can be doing more in the workplace to empower women?What in your personal life has helped you build your confidence at work? How do you set boundaries at work, in your personal life, with men?What advice would you give to women when it comes to defining career goals?Timestamp:1:19 Michelle’s background3:53 Being discouraged to speak up earlier in her career6:08 Dispelling impostor syndrome7:30 Having mentors, being a mentor13:56 Perfectionism & failure19:34 How running helped her build confidence22:18 Setting expectations 25:40 Career advice for women in mobileQuotes:(4:55-5:09) “I think as a woman, we’re always told to be put in this little box of like, ‘Okay, well, behave.’ But, I don’t think the opposite of that being having a voice and making sure you’re heard is misbehaving.”(16:38-16:58) “I think as managers and as leaders, we’re always being like, ‘Hey, why don’t we try it like this?’ instead of being like, ‘What do you think we should do?’ And I think continuing to ask questions will also really help people get their footing and have a voice because then the more questions you ask, the more they’ll feel like they’re able to come forward and bring their opinion and thoughts to the table.”Mentioned in this Episode:Michelle Lerner’s LinkedInBranch

Fanny Jacoby is the Head of Projects for app marketing at trivago, a leading hotel price comparison website.Questions Fanny Answered in this Episode:How did you get started with mobile marketing?What is it like working at Trivago? What does Trivago do to empower and support women at the workplace?Can you speak a little bit more about Trivago’s mentorship program?What do you think we can be doing to improve women’s role in the workplace?What do you think is the biggest challenge for women in marketing?What are the ways you’ve been able to build up your confidence?What advice would you give to women who are defining their career goals?Timestamp:1:27 Fanny’s background6:47 How Trivago created an inclusive workplace environment12:02 Trivago’s mentorship program15:08 Inviting men to understand women’s perspective21:11 What’s holding women back24:45 On building confidence32:50 Surround yourself with inspiring peopleQuotes:(3:06-3:41) “The content was pretty exciting but the atmosphere at the time was really toxic. And I’m really sad to say it because I’m all for this woman empowerment, we’re great, we’re badass and everything, but I did feel a lot of competition there at the time and sometimes I feel like women can sometimes be mean to each other and tear themselves down. And a lack of diversity also led to this toxic, competitive, mean, gossipy environment I would say.”(21:11-21:23) “I think one of the biggest problems [for women in marketing], I think I mentioned it before, is this imposter problem. To not always trust yourself and capabilities, and lacking self-confidence in general.”Mentioned in this Episode:Fanny Jacoby’s LinkedInTrivago

Our first guest is Jen Donahoe, the Marketing and Growth Lead for Teamfight Tactics at Riot Games. Jen has also held marketing roles at Disney, Hasbro, EA Sports, and Mattel. She shares her thoughts on connecting with male peers, the need for women to support other women, calling out unconscious bias, work-life balance, and more.Questions Jen Answered in this Episode:How did you get started in marketing, specifically in gaming? And how have you been able to grow at some of the most influential companies in our industry?How have you seen the role of women changing in the gaming industry? What could we be doing more of to allow more opportunities for women in the workplace?What’s your perspective on the diversity and inclusion issues that were brought to light at Riot Games?How do you navigate your work-life balance?Timestamp:1:50 How Jen got into a marketing career in gaming8:30 Authentic connection in a male-dominated industry12:35 Women supporters, not saboteurs15:40 Calling out unconscious bias in work meetings18:24 Getting peer feedback on your approach20:55 Paying it forward and asking for help26:34 How Riot Games has taken accountability for sexism criticism 35:40 Going beyond the superficial in coworker relationships40:35 Managing work-life balance and your career44:36 Jen’s 4 “Ps” Quotes:(8:59-9:28) “I think because I had such a connection to sports and to these hobbies that many men actually enjoyed, I was really able to connect with them. And so, I call it ‘authentic connections.’ You have to realize that whether we’re women, we’re human beings and we have to find ways of connecting with other human beings, and I was just really good at figuring out that hey, the authentic way I can connect with these mentors or these people that I need to know was to find a thing that connected us.”(15:53-16:18) “For us, in today’s day and age, nothing is really that overt anymore. I think that it’s more of the unconscious bias that sometimes happens from our male peers. And one of the things is when you have an idea and you say something in the meeting, it gets glossed over and then a few minutes later a man will repeat the same question and everyone’s like ‘Oh my god, it’s an amazing idea.’”(29:05-29:12) “Without a diverse workforce, without different perspectives, you’re not going to succeed in today’s innovative and changing environment.”Mentioned in this Episode:Jen Donahoe’s LinkedInRiot GamesKotaku article: “Inside the Culture of Sexism at Riot Games”

Yue Meng is the Senior Data Scientist at Delivery Hero, an on-demand delivery platform. Previously she was a marketing consultant for Ninah Consulting. She has a master’s degree in statistics. She is based in Berlin, Germany. Questions Yue Answered in this Episode:What methodologies do you use to evaluate your various campaigns? What are your plans for A/B testing once device IDs are no longer available with the data privacy changes to iOS14? Can you give us an example of how you would analyze an offline campaign?How do you know if your baseline model is accurate enough?How would you improve your model if it wasn’t accurate enough?Can you use the control group only to focus testing? Timestamp:1:02 Yue’s background4:45 Why Delivery Hero trusts A/B tests7:54 Plans for marketing campaign testing without device IDs11:29 KPIs for evaluating offline campaigns15:10 Measuring uplift from offline campaigns with time series21:39 Calculating accuracy with baseline models24:30 Using geo as a proxy for user-level data31:34 Looking ahead at testing solutionsQuotes: (9:21-9:43) “This offline scenario is very similar to an online scenario without the device ID, I would say. So probably some models that we’re using for the offline campaigns estimation can be used on the online campaigns also. That’s what we are currently trying to do.”(17:07-17:20) “By using the time series analysis, the simplest model you can use, you’re not adding any other factors or any other features. You only focus on the time series by itself.”(24:30-24:41) “Now the control group on a user level is impossible. What we can try to do as a proxy is to use instead of user-level to use geo-level, for example, the city level.” Mentioned in this Episode:Yue Meng’s LinkedInDelivery Hero