

The Power of Music Thinking
Christof Zürn
What can the dynamics of music teach us about navigating today’s complex world? The Power of Music Thinking podcast dives deep into this potent analogy.
Host Christof Zürn, founder of MusicThinking.com, explores how concepts like listening, tuning, rhythm, and improvisation translate into powerful tools for business, creativity, and leadership.Through engaging interviews with global thought leaders, designers, entrepreneurs, and artists, discover practical ways to improve collaboration, spark innovation, and lead teams more effectively. Learn how to listen differently, find your team’s rhythm, and embrace improvisation in the face of uncertainty. And there are special episodes around a theme or experiment.For anyone fascinated by the intersection of creativity, strategy, and human dynamics – subscribe to The Power of Music Thinking.
Host Christof Zürn, founder of MusicThinking.com, explores how concepts like listening, tuning, rhythm, and improvisation translate into powerful tools for business, creativity, and leadership.Through engaging interviews with global thought leaders, designers, entrepreneurs, and artists, discover practical ways to improve collaboration, spark innovation, and lead teams more effectively. Learn how to listen differently, find your team’s rhythm, and embrace improvisation in the face of uncertainty. And there are special episodes around a theme or experiment.For anyone fascinated by the intersection of creativity, strategy, and human dynamics – subscribe to The Power of Music Thinking.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Apr 5, 2022 • 50min
Talking about the book with Xenia
Today we switch roles: Christof asked his daughter Xenia to ask him anything about the new book: The Power of Music Thinking. Because Xenia was already a collaborator on the Jam Cards, a pre-reader of the new book and worked with her dad for many years, she can ask questions no one else could or would. They talked about leadership, followership, Service Design, the difference between metaphors and analogies, and why a book?
Be ready for a pleasant conversation between father and daughter about The Power of Music Thinking.
Show notes
Book page with a sneak preview: https://musicthinking.com/book-the-power-of-music-thinking/
Jam Cards page: https://musicthinking.com/jam-cards/
Xenia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/xenia-z%C3%BCrn/
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION specialised in facilitating companies in making brand minded and people-centred decisions.
Buy The Power of Music Thinking book
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Feb 14, 2022 • 54min
Brands as Patterns with Marc Shillum
Today we speak with Marc Shillum, Designer, Creative Mind and trained musician.
Marc was the founding Chief Experience Officer of Matternet, a pioneering transportation startup awarded World Economic Forum Technology Pioneer. In his role, he connected the dots between Customer Needs, Hardware Design, Software Design, User Experience, Visual Design, Business Strategy and Brand Building.
Marc has written OpEds for The World Economic Forum and Virgin Unite, delivered keynotes at SXSW, the Lego Marketing Summit, Nike Design Summit, and others.
And Marc is the author of 'Brands as Patterns', a white paper that opinion-makers like FastCompany, Contagious Magazine and PSFK have republished.
We have a wonderful conversation about analogies between design, business, the human body and music. For example, Marc shares the various roles of a trumpet player in an orchestra and his early experiences with improvising musicians like Graham Collier and Derek Bailey.
We talk about different leadership positions, from composing, orchestrating, and conducting and how different musical styles help us understand our business.
And we discuss the difference between frequency and cadence in an agile workspace and how brands can orchestrate their business successfully with patterns.
Show notes
Brands as Patterns platform, https://www.brandsaspatterns.com
Marc on Twitter, https://twitter.com/BrandsPatterns
Marc on LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/marc-s-92967b2/
Magazine INDEX, including a few conversations with guitarist Derek Bailey, we talked about in the session: http://www.index.works
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION specialised in facilitating companies in making brand minded and people-centred decisions.
Buy The Power of Music Thinking book (April 2022)
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Feb 3, 2022 • 18min
Listening walk
In this short episode, we look back on some conversations from last year, share tips and short exercises like a 1-minute ritual before a brainstorm and the listening walk.
Show notes
•Podcast playlist on Spotify
•The Power of Music Thinking Book, pre-order
•Latest Episode
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
Learn more about the Book that will be published in April 22, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com or the Music Thinking LinkedIn page.
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking
Podchaser
MYGDb8hJqQvdUmZja9nx

Nov 30, 2021 • 52min
Rules of engagement with Jim Kalbach
How do you bring humanity to work? How do you connect with your team on different levels?
Today, we are in New York, and we talk with Jim Kalbach. Jim is a noted author, speaker, musician, and instructor in design, customer experience, and strategy. He is currently Chief Evangelist at MURAL, the digital online whiteboard designed for remote collaboration and visual problem-solving.
Jim studied music theory and composition with 12-tone composer Charles Wuorinen, and that gives us a kick-start to discuss the differences between fixed instructions, lead sheets and free improvisation in music and our daily work. We talk about systems thinking in a 12-tone composition where every note is equal and how this connects to design thinking. And we chat about the difference between rhythm, beat and cadence in agile development.
Jim shares with us his CEO playing guitar and singing in a meeting and how this brought in playfulness, opened things up and made it meaningful.
Show notes
Connect with Jim:https://www.linkedin.com/in/kalbach/
JTBD Tool Kit website: www.jtbdtoolkit.com
Jim on Twitter: https://twitter.com/JimKalbach
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
Learn more about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com or the Music Thinking LinkedIn page.
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Sep 29, 2021 • 51min
A Sound Facilitation Business with Gerry Scullion
How do you design for inclusivity? How do you get the right people on the team? What would a studio look like for a service designer?
Today on the show we have Gerry Scullion. Gerry is the founder of This is HCD, the global human-centred design podcast and international design community of change-makers, and he is founder and CEO of This is Doing.com
In a ‘previous life’, he was a musician and songwriter who released two albums under the moniker: Minus Circus and worked with 13-time Grammy-winning producer Rafa Sardina.
A few months ago, I was a guest on his podcast, and we talked about the interrelationship of music and design and what design can learn from music.
So today, we talk about how the shared mindset comes back in the daily life of a facilitator, service designer and change maker.
Gerry gives us insights into how it was like working with a top-notch producer that had the experience, knowledge and ability to drill down and zoom in on a detail and then drill the whole way out to see the whole.
And we talk about bringing vulnerability and laughter to co-create innovation and engage people to be their very best.
(The instrument you hear in the beginning is the Theremin we talked about in our first conversation.)
Show notes
Connect with Gerry:
This is Doing: www.thisisDoing.com
Twitter: @thisisdoing and @gerrycircus
This is Human Centred Design: www.thisishcd.com
Episode with Gerry and Christof on This is HCD: https://www.thisishcd.com/episode/christof-zurn-the-power-of-music-thinking
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
Learn more about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com or the Music Thinking LinkedIn page.
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Sep 15, 2021 • 1h 2min
The Jazz Process to innovation with Adrian Cho
In this insightful discussion, Adrian Cho, a former IBM consultant and artistic director of the Ottawa Jazz Orchestra, shares how a personal injury led him to a passion for music and technology. He explores the parallels between jazz improvisation and business innovation, emphasizing the importance of adaptability in team dynamics. Adrian also discusses his new venture, SyncSpace, which enhances audience engagement through creative tipping, showcasing how music and technology can create intimate connections even in virtual spaces.

Aug 24, 2021 • 52min
Multi-sensory storytelling with Jasper Udink ten Cate
How can you tell a story through food and music? Are all chefs drummers? Should prominent leaders start a band together?
In this episode, Creative Companion meets the Creative Chef. We have a lively conversation with Jasper Udink ten Cate, artist, designer, futurist, keynote speaker, book author and drummer. He worked worldwide on exhibitions like London Design Week, Dubai Design, Metropolitan Museum New York and the World Expo in Milano and for companies like Nike, BASF and Google.
Jasper shares his approach to collective storytelling with food, music and design. And we talk about different tastes and diets and how to give goosebumps from natural vegan food to inspire people to create their own identity. He shares the story of the unripe peach and how reframing can be the start of new product innovation.
We chat about how you can listen to yourself to create your own beautiful story, shape your personality and make decisions in consuming music, books, food and life.
Show notes
Connect with Jasper: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasper-udink-ten-cate-19b85bb/
Creative Chef website: https://creativechef.nl/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/creativechefnl/
How to become a Creative Chef Book: https://www.bispublishers.com/creative-chef.html
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
Learn more about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com or the Music Thinking LinkedIn page.
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Aug 10, 2021 • 53min
The Thrills of Business with Padraic McMahon
What are the similarities between the technology and the record industry? And what is situational leadership?
In this episode, we connect with Padraic McMahon, Customer Success Manager at Hubspot, a software company that helps businesses grow. Padraic has worked in Management positions at Google and LinkedIn. Before that, he was the guitar player of The Thrills that had some major hits from 2003 on. Their first LP was going platinum in the UK and Ireland, and their top hit 'Big Sur' has more than 8 Mio plays on Spotify alone and is still growing.
We talk about the similarities in tech business and the record business and the situational leadership of the producer role that brings a group of people to their optimum performance regardless of the circumstances.
He shares with us what the Hubspot unplugged week means to the team and compares the studio analogy with the importance of the work-life balance in working for a technology company. And the insight that you need different leadership at different times. Like the difference of the first record, to the second and the third - or in my words from start-up to scale-up to selling the company.
Padraic gives us an example of 'the art of remixing' where visual and sonic cues help make the mix's best decision.
Quote: 'Where you invest, you need to divest!'
Show notes
Connect with Padraic: https://www.linkedin.com/in/padraicmcmahon/
Hubspot website: https://www.hubspot.com/
The Thrills on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thrills
Padraic explains Schumpeter’s Theory of Creative Destruction and MBWA - management by wandering around.
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
Learn more about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com or the Music Thinking LinkedIn page.
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Jul 27, 2021 • 56min
Cross-pollination in leadership with Ilkka Mäkitalo
Can we be successful in more than one field? What about the multiple me’s we have developed in different areas?
Today we are in Finland, my guest is Ilkka Mäkitalo - musician, teacher, CEO, Co-Founder of Howspace and Conductor of Jyvaskyla Big Band.
We chat about instruments, jazz and how to inspire young talents to compose for a big band. And we talk about organisational memory, organisational learning, organisational dynamics and how to change the world with a digital platform for facilitating dialogue in different contexts, supported by AI.
And we are talking about different meanings for AI when engaging people like artificial intelligence, applied improvisation and appreciative inquiry.
Ilkka shares his vision on leadership in a digital and remote world and how to grow an organisation above 17 people and raise venture capital of about 12 Mio with strong cultural guiding principles.
Show notes
Connect with Ilkka:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ilkkamakitalo/
Howspace website
https://www.howspace.com/
Jyvaskyla Big Band on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/JyvaskylaBigBand
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
More about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com

Jul 12, 2021 • 50min
Music and the Brain with Artur Jaschke
Did you know that music can help you to rewire your brain? This episode is about the working of music on the brain and behaviour. My guest today is Artur Jaschke - neuromusicologist and professor for music-based therapies and interventions at the ArtEZ University of the Arts in Enschede and he also works at the neonatal intensive care at a hospital in Groningen, the Netherlands.
We talk about how you can use music and sound for the advantage of healthcare, wellbeing and brain stimulation. We elaborate on themes like empathy and listening to unknown music or music that you might not like in the first place and the effect on your thinking and the basics of innovation and improvisation that can also be applied in a business setting. And we also speak about the joy and benefit of learning a musical instrument and the impact it has on the wellbeing and self-therapy of everyone in a stressed-out busy workplace.
Show notes
Connect with Artur:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/artur-c-jaschke-b87174106/
Music Therapy at ArtEZ
https://professorshipmusictherapy.artez.nl/blog/
Website
https://www.arturjaschke.nl/
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
More about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com


