

The Power of Music Thinking
Christof Zürn
What can the dynamics of music teach us about navigating today’s complex world? The Power of Music Thinking podcast dives deep into this potent analogy.
Host Christof Zürn, founder of MusicThinking.com, explores how concepts like listening, tuning, rhythm, and improvisation translate into powerful tools for business, creativity, and leadership.Through engaging interviews with global thought leaders, designers, entrepreneurs, and artists, discover practical ways to improve collaboration, spark innovation, and lead teams more effectively. Learn how to listen differently, find your team’s rhythm, and embrace improvisation in the face of uncertainty. And there are special episodes around a theme or experiment.For anyone fascinated by the intersection of creativity, strategy, and human dynamics – subscribe to The Power of Music Thinking.
Host Christof Zürn, founder of MusicThinking.com, explores how concepts like listening, tuning, rhythm, and improvisation translate into powerful tools for business, creativity, and leadership.Through engaging interviews with global thought leaders, designers, entrepreneurs, and artists, discover practical ways to improve collaboration, spark innovation, and lead teams more effectively. Learn how to listen differently, find your team’s rhythm, and embrace improvisation in the face of uncertainty. And there are special episodes around a theme or experiment.For anyone fascinated by the intersection of creativity, strategy, and human dynamics – subscribe to The Power of Music Thinking.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Sep 29, 2021 • 51min
A Sound Facilitation Business with Gerry Scullion
How do you design for inclusivity? How do you get the right people on the team? What would a studio look like for a service designer?
Today on the show we have Gerry Scullion. Gerry is the founder of This is HCD, the global human-centred design podcast and international design community of change-makers, and he is founder and CEO of This is Doing.com
In a ‘previous life’, he was a musician and songwriter who released two albums under the moniker: Minus Circus and worked with 13-time Grammy-winning producer Rafa Sardina.
A few months ago, I was a guest on his podcast, and we talked about the interrelationship of music and design and what design can learn from music.
So today, we talk about how the shared mindset comes back in the daily life of a facilitator, service designer and change maker.
Gerry gives us insights into how it was like working with a top-notch producer that had the experience, knowledge and ability to drill down and zoom in on a detail and then drill the whole way out to see the whole.
And we talk about bringing vulnerability and laughter to co-create innovation and engage people to be their very best.
(The instrument you hear in the beginning is the Theremin we talked about in our first conversation.)
Show notes
Connect with Gerry:
This is Doing: www.thisisDoing.com
Twitter: @thisisdoing and @gerrycircus
This is Human Centred Design: www.thisishcd.com
Episode with Gerry and Christof on This is HCD: https://www.thisishcd.com/episode/christof-zurn-the-power-of-music-thinking
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
Learn more about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com or the Music Thinking LinkedIn page.
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Sep 15, 2021 • 1h 2min
The Jazz Process to innovation with Adrian Cho
In this insightful discussion, Adrian Cho, a former IBM consultant and artistic director of the Ottawa Jazz Orchestra, shares how a personal injury led him to a passion for music and technology. He explores the parallels between jazz improvisation and business innovation, emphasizing the importance of adaptability in team dynamics. Adrian also discusses his new venture, SyncSpace, which enhances audience engagement through creative tipping, showcasing how music and technology can create intimate connections even in virtual spaces.

Aug 24, 2021 • 52min
Multi-sensory storytelling with Jasper Udink ten Cate
How can you tell a story through food and music? Are all chefs drummers? Should prominent leaders start a band together?
In this episode, Creative Companion meets the Creative Chef. We have a lively conversation with Jasper Udink ten Cate, artist, designer, futurist, keynote speaker, book author and drummer. He worked worldwide on exhibitions like London Design Week, Dubai Design, Metropolitan Museum New York and the World Expo in Milano and for companies like Nike, BASF and Google.
Jasper shares his approach to collective storytelling with food, music and design. And we talk about different tastes and diets and how to give goosebumps from natural vegan food to inspire people to create their own identity. He shares the story of the unripe peach and how reframing can be the start of new product innovation.
We chat about how you can listen to yourself to create your own beautiful story, shape your personality and make decisions in consuming music, books, food and life.
Show notes
Connect with Jasper: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasper-udink-ten-cate-19b85bb/
Creative Chef website: https://creativechef.nl/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/creativechefnl/
How to become a Creative Chef Book: https://www.bispublishers.com/creative-chef.html
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
Learn more about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com or the Music Thinking LinkedIn page.
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Aug 10, 2021 • 53min
The Thrills of Business with Padraic McMahon
What are the similarities between the technology and the record industry? And what is situational leadership?
In this episode, we connect with Padraic McMahon, Customer Success Manager at Hubspot, a software company that helps businesses grow. Padraic has worked in Management positions at Google and LinkedIn. Before that, he was the guitar player of The Thrills that had some major hits from 2003 on. Their first LP was going platinum in the UK and Ireland, and their top hit 'Big Sur' has more than 8 Mio plays on Spotify alone and is still growing.
We talk about the similarities in tech business and the record business and the situational leadership of the producer role that brings a group of people to their optimum performance regardless of the circumstances.
He shares with us what the Hubspot unplugged week means to the team and compares the studio analogy with the importance of the work-life balance in working for a technology company. And the insight that you need different leadership at different times. Like the difference of the first record, to the second and the third - or in my words from start-up to scale-up to selling the company.
Padraic gives us an example of 'the art of remixing' where visual and sonic cues help make the mix's best decision.
Quote: 'Where you invest, you need to divest!'
Show notes
Connect with Padraic: https://www.linkedin.com/in/padraicmcmahon/
Hubspot website: https://www.hubspot.com/
The Thrills on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thrills
Padraic explains Schumpeter’s Theory of Creative Destruction and MBWA - management by wandering around.
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
Learn more about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com or the Music Thinking LinkedIn page.
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Jul 27, 2021 • 56min
Cross-pollination in leadership with Ilkka Mäkitalo
Can we be successful in more than one field? What about the multiple me’s we have developed in different areas?
Today we are in Finland, my guest is Ilkka Mäkitalo - musician, teacher, CEO, Co-Founder of Howspace and Conductor of Jyvaskyla Big Band.
We chat about instruments, jazz and how to inspire young talents to compose for a big band. And we talk about organisational memory, organisational learning, organisational dynamics and how to change the world with a digital platform for facilitating dialogue in different contexts, supported by AI.
And we are talking about different meanings for AI when engaging people like artificial intelligence, applied improvisation and appreciative inquiry.
Ilkka shares his vision on leadership in a digital and remote world and how to grow an organisation above 17 people and raise venture capital of about 12 Mio with strong cultural guiding principles.
Show notes
Connect with Ilkka:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ilkkamakitalo/
Howspace website
https://www.howspace.com/
Jyvaskyla Big Band on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/JyvaskylaBigBand
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
More about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com

Jul 12, 2021 • 50min
Music and the Brain with Artur Jaschke
Did you know that music can help you to rewire your brain? This episode is about the working of music on the brain and behaviour. My guest today is Artur Jaschke - neuromusicologist and professor for music-based therapies and interventions at the ArtEZ University of the Arts in Enschede and he also works at the neonatal intensive care at a hospital in Groningen, the Netherlands.
We talk about how you can use music and sound for the advantage of healthcare, wellbeing and brain stimulation. We elaborate on themes like empathy and listening to unknown music or music that you might not like in the first place and the effect on your thinking and the basics of innovation and improvisation that can also be applied in a business setting. And we also speak about the joy and benefit of learning a musical instrument and the impact it has on the wellbeing and self-therapy of everyone in a stressed-out busy workplace.
Show notes
Connect with Artur:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/artur-c-jaschke-b87174106/
Music Therapy at ArtEZ
https://professorshipmusictherapy.artez.nl/blog/
Website
https://www.arturjaschke.nl/
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
More about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com

Jun 29, 2021 • 53min
Deep listening with Sharon Stewart
This episode is about listening - deep listening. My guest today is Sharon Stewart - creator of sound works, musician, poet, researcher, piano teacher and deep listener.
We learn about the Center for Deep Listening at Rensselaer and the retreats that were held by composer Pauline Oliveros and the many ways to listen, for example like listening in dreams, embodied listening and that deep listening is about doing, writing, practising and experiencing.
We talk about text scores, guiding principles, and using this in a non-musical context. We also chat about the listening presence of leadership and that we all might benefit when this would shift from just ‘listening to’ to ‘listening with’.
And Sharon shares with us her contribution to the ‘Listening guide for quarantine’ that was published at the beginning of the pandemic and an exercise of harmonious human interaction with sounding and listening that we also could do in a workshop situation.
Connect with Sharon:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/hopsharonstewart/
Download Homing inside out: A listening guide for home quarantine (2020 Soundtrack City, The Mystifiers, STEIM) https://soundtrackcity.net/homing-inside-out/
Upcoming Deep Listening® Retreats https://www.ministryofmaat.org/deep-listening-retreat.html
The Center for Deep Listening® at RPI https://www.deeplistening.rpi.edu/
Sonic works by Sharon Stewart https://soundcloud.com/sharonrstewart
Podcast miniseries on Deep Listening® https://studiumgenerale.artez.nl/nl/studies/all/podcast/2+deep+listening+pauline+oliveros+and+the+sonosphere/
Journal of Sonic Studies Article on Deep Listening® https://www.researchcatalogue.net/view/261881/261882
Sharon can be reached at s.stewart@artez.nl
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
More about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com

Jun 15, 2021 • 57min
Innovation patterns and improvisation in organisations with Wolfgang Stark
Wolfgang Stark, an expert in organizational and community psychology, discusses the intriguing link between sound, innovation, and collaboration. He illustrates how jazz improvisation can enhance organizational dynamics and transform business practices. The conversation highlights unique tools like the Reactable, which fosters co-creation among non-musicians. Stark also critiques traditional education for stifling creativity and advocates for a more adaptable approach to learning, emphasizing the importance of improvisation in uncertain times.

Jun 1, 2021 • 58min
Nifemi Aluko, Music as a Catalyst for Change
We talk with Nifemi Aluko - Founder and CEO of kpakpakpa and author of the book Press Play, Music as a catalyst for change.
Nifemi is a traveller between California and Nigeria and - as he calls - a Youtube inspired bedroom producer. We talk about his journey from a chemical engineer to an advisor for companies that want to enter the African market.
We learn about the size and the diversity of Africa, the high energy of woman entrepreneurship and the many languages, dialects, and communication between people across the continent.
And we chat about the different pace in doing business and establishing relationships, and how the technique of sampling can bring new styles of music and nurtures the ability to collaborate with people from different places.
Connect with Nifemi:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nifemi-aluko/
Website kpakpakpa:
https://kpakpakpa.com/
His book Press Play: https://www.amazon.com/Press-Play-Music-Catalyst-Change/dp/1641375531/
Soundcloud:
https://soundcloud.com/naporepublic
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION

May 18, 2021 • 1h 3min
Steve Keller, Blend sound science with sound art to make sound decisions
Today in the programme we have Steve Keller from Oakland California and we learn more about sound art, sound science and sound business.
Steve has a great title: Audio alchemist and Sonic Strategy Director, Studio Resonate at SXM Media. We talk about audio-only and audio first strategies in what he calls ‘the platinum age of audio’, how COVID has changed our listening habits, the rise of clubhouse and how leaders can foster the ability to listen inside their companies. We have a conversation about the relationship between visual and sonic identities and what brands with a conscience can do to use sound for sustainable business in a multisensory world.
We learn about his research on sonic racism and he shares with us a little ritual that he uses before brainstorming sessions that matter.
Connect with Steve: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevekeller1/
Sound first consultancy Studio Resonate | Pandora: https://www.sxmmedia.com/studio-resonate
Listening Builds Trust in a Time of Uncertainty https://www.adweek.com/partner-articles/listening-builds-trust-in-a-time-of-uncertainty/
Brands can tackle sonic racism: https://www.warc.com/newsandopinion/news/brands-can-tackle-sonic-racism/44246
Stand For Sonic Diversity website: https://www.standforsonicdiversity.com/
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION


